AiC
Everyone seems to like them a lot on here, but all I can remember of theirs is a really, really terrible tune about how matey-boy's dad was a bit crap - was that them?

A real classic American woe-is-me boo-hoo fest with awful sixth-form lyrics. That may not have been them but if it was, and it was an atypical song, the damage was done and I wrote them off as bent.
( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Tue 8 Dec 2009, 12:49, 3 replies, latest was 16 years ago)

You are right...
...dreadful. Nearly as bad as Pearl Jam.

On the other hand STP were great.
(Tugnut Ex of this parish, Tue 8 Dec 2009, 12:51, Reply)

Pearl Jam seemed frightfully middle-of-the-road to me

( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Tue 8 Dec 2009, 13:18, Reply)

they have done some seriously good stuff
some of the tracks off their album Binaural are fucking superb.
( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Tue 8 Dec 2009, 13:19, Reply)

I liked Mudhoney's first couple of records
'Touch Me I'm Sick' was a quality bit of Stooges rip-offery
( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Tue 8 Dec 2009, 13:25, Reply)

Mudhoney kind of passed me by
the trouble with Pearl Jam is that the songs that always get played, while quite good, are not the best.

Alive, Evenflow and Jeremy are the ones that always get played off Ten, and there are some better songs on that album alone, let alone the rest of their catalogue.

Find and listen to "Of the girl" off Binaural. Listen to it very loud and appreciate how well it is put together
( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Tue 8 Dec 2009, 13:30, Reply)

the only song about the guy's dad that I remember is Rooster
which is about the guitarist's dad, and goes "Yeah, they come to snuff the rooster"

fucking awesome.
( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Tue 8 Dec 2009, 12:51, Reply)

As far as I'm aware
They don't really play 'Rooster' live. Jerry was trying to pull off the rock-star-solo-gurning face but seemed a little choked at times. It was probably just my imagination though, that song kinda chokes me up a bit. Especially seeing as they had the video running in the background.
(ConanTroutman thought we would free the vulture, Tue 8 Dec 2009, 13:18, Reply)

they did it when I saw them
it was such a good gig.
( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Tue 8 Dec 2009, 13:20, Reply)

The song is told from the perspective of the guitarist's dad
about how he tried to stay physically and mentally strong enough to survive a Vietnamese POW camp.

A lot of grunge was sixth-form misery bollocks but I don't think Rooster can be classed as that.
( djtrialprice, Tue 8 Dec 2009, 13:01, Reply)

OK maybe I'm mistaken
Grunge did absolutely nothing for me, unless you count 'mildly irritated me'.

*shrugs*
( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Tue 8 Dec 2009, 13:16, Reply)

AiC are a bit heavier than grunge really
kind of did their own thing. Good harmonies and heavy guitar.
( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Tue 8 Dec 2009, 13:20, Reply)

So at what point does it stop being "grunge"?
The line I normally take is that I can't be bothered with Grunge with the exceptions of Soundgarden and Mudhoney...but then most people draw in breath sharply and tell me that Soundgarden were more like metal and Mudhoney were more like punk. So that eliminates any grunge from the spectrum of my favourable opinion, at which point people tell me I've "just not heard the right stuff" and should listen to AiC.
(LongJohnBaldry, Tue 8 Dec 2009, 13:25, Reply)

see above, thumbs up for Mudhoney
I think my problem is that angsty white American music strikes me as somewhat pathetic. When you think of the dignity shown by the old blues players - who really DID have some very real reasons to be fucking unhappy - when compared to those suburban brats who 'no-one understands, man', that whole attitude seems laughable.

Classic woe-is-me Americans whose only real problems were boredom and only having the one car etc. Benders, I say.
( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Tue 8 Dec 2009, 13:26, Reply)

I wouldn't say that a lot of the grunge stuff is angsty
emo crap may be like that, but I certainly wouldn't say AiC or Pearl Jam were/are. People who can play their instruments and sing well and can construct a song that is beyond a rudimentary level are welcome, regardless of subject matter.

Most of them were at least pretty fucked up on drugs, and not the sort to write whiny songs when their problems were only those you mention
( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Tue 8 Dec 2009, 13:44, Reply)

flag bearers for that scene Nirvana were pure angst, surely?
And I reckon that playing instruments and singing well and constructing songs that are beyond a rudimentary level are all hugely overrated as musical attributes.

By those criteria Yes and Emerson, Lake and Palmer would be the zenith of musical achievement rather than its nadir, which I firmly believe that they are.
( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Tue 8 Dec 2009, 13:54, Reply)

there is a huge gulf between being able to play and writing a good, interesting song
and what Yes and ELP do :-P
( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Tue 8 Dec 2009, 14:01, Reply)

Too fucking right there is

( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Tue 8 Dec 2009, 14:07, Reply)

haha

( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Tue 8 Dec 2009, 14:14, Reply)

This is why I have such a problem with pigeon-holing genres
It's music. With guitars. If you need more information then listen for yourself.

P.S.
I've seen Mudhoney too and they were great.
(ConanTroutman thought we would free the vulture, Tue 8 Dec 2009, 13:27, Reply)

this is of course the answer that I should have given

( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Tue 8 Dec 2009, 13:28, Reply)

pearl jam, stone temple pilots, nirvana
alice in chains are more like metal than soundgarden are I would say.

not sure where to place soundgarden as their sound has aged better than most grunge stuff.
( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Tue 8 Dec 2009, 13:28, Reply)

It has aged rather better, hasn't it?
The lyrics are still shit, but I can ignore them for the sake of Cornell's voice and Thayil's squelchy guitar.
(LongJohnBaldry, Tue 8 Dec 2009, 13:34, Reply)

nothing wrong with shit lyrics
see: my band, many other of my favourite bands
( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Tue 8 Dec 2009, 13:38, Reply)

valid point indeed
AC/DC's lyrics are fucking ghastly on the whole, and it's very much part of their charm....
( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Tue 8 Dec 2009, 13:40, Reply)

Iron Maiden are the same

( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Tue 8 Dec 2009, 13:45, Reply)

Argh! Invaders...
I love Number of the Beast but I always have to skip that first track...I can't help but think sod's law dictates someone inappropriate will walk past the door just as Bruce Dickinson shouts "RAPING!"
(LongJohnBaldry, Tue 8 Dec 2009, 13:46, Reply)

Loneliness of a long distance runner, anyone?
awful fucking song.

even some of the great songs have terrible lyrics. 2 minutes to midnight being a prime example
( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Tue 8 Dec 2009, 13:48, Reply)

I actually cannot stand Iron Maiden
It's Bruce Dickinson's fault. He was on an Arena documentary on heavy metal in the 80s and made a monumental penis of himself. He's like Gareth Hunt from the Fast Show, and came across as so terminally uncool (on his exercise bike in Union Jack shorts) that their music was ruined for ever for me.

/shallow


EDIT I also really struggle with the old twin guitars playing in harmony thing. It ruins much of Thin Lizzy for me. Such a smart arse technique and totally lacking in spontaneity...
( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Tue 8 Dec 2009, 13:58, Reply)

you should have a go at watching Flight 666
they all come across as dudes on that.

edit: I see we are not going to be able to agree here. the harmony thing is great. used it a bit in the thing I've recorded with my mate. although the whole thing is a bit tongue-in-cheek so is probably allowed
( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Tue 8 Dec 2009, 14:00, Reply)

it's definitely a bit Spinal isn't it?
With a healthy dose of irony it has its place - that bloody Christmas record by The Darkness sums it up rather well.
( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Tue 8 Dec 2009, 14:10, Reply)

I think the darkness are great
don't much like to listen to them, but I like what they did.

their version of street spirit by radiohead was awesome though.

I like Maiden for the same reason as AC/DC. You know what you are getting, and it brings a smile to the face.
( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Tue 8 Dec 2009, 14:13, Reply)

fair enough
same deal with Motorhead
( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Tue 8 Dec 2009, 14:21, Reply)

And Lily Allen

(Tugnut Ex of this parish, Tue 8 Dec 2009, 13:47, Reply)

she's pure punk mate, I'm telling ya

( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Tue 8 Dec 2009, 13:56, Reply)

Hey - I've got nothing against her...
...apart from wearing trainers with ball-gowns.

Shameful
(Tugnut Ex of this parish, Tue 8 Dec 2009, 14:02, Reply)

to be fair though Monty
I do think it's a weak song myself. Vipros is right, AiC were quite metally and dark. They came out of Seattle at the same time as all the other grunge bands so still get classed accordingly.
( djtrialprice, Tue 8 Dec 2009, 13:26, Reply)