Then why don't they quit and get a minimum wage job?
I'm willing to bet its because they make more than 10% on the majority of customers. I don't tip unless I feel that I have had exceptional service as I know plenty of people working in minimum wage jobs that don't ever have the opportunity for tips. I knew a girl who worked in Pizza Hut who made more in tips than her wages.
( Peej, Tue 23 Mar 2010, 22:14, 1 reply, 16 years ago)

Because then it would just be someone else in that job.
If the laws were changed so that tipping was eliminated you'd get higher restaurant prices and worse service. Is that desirable?

Look, usually the difference between a 15% tip and a 20-25% tip is maybe five bucks. If you can't afford to tip, you can't afford to eat at a restaurant, especially if a difference of five to ten dollars is going to break you. If you can afford it, why bitch about it?

What I find objectionable are the tip jars starting to pop up at coffee shops and convenience stores, where the employees are paid at least minimum wage. Unless they're doing the same sort of effort that a waiter does for each customer, they don't deserve it. Waiters work pretty fucking hard- I remember all too well my days of serving tables. Believe me, they earn that couple of bucks.
( Wanderer, Tue 23 Mar 2010, 22:25, Reply)

Tipping is just not heard of in the UK,
therefore we're not used to it and don't agree with it - it's nothing against American culture, it's just "not the done thing" and you know how us Brits are - everything is proper and in its proper order and place.

Now, of course, I'm used to tipping and when I go to other countries I find it hard not to - and a lot of my American friends say the same thing.

I figure if you're on vacation here from a country that doesn't tip, you're not obligated to, and like I said above, if you do feel obligated to then just ask someone about protocol.
( Batshitmentalist is sane for once, Tue 23 Mar 2010, 22:37, Reply)

When in Rome...
Personally I try to find out things about the culture of a place before I go there, and tipping is something that's a widely publicized difference between the US and elsewhere. The tipping guidelines you linked in that other site were pretty decent, I thought. It's really not difficult to grasp, yet many take it as a personal affront when they're expected to conform to this particular norm.

And yes, if you stiff a waiter because tipping just isn't done where you're from, and it ends up costing the waiter money, that is really a dick move. Sorry, but there it is.
( Wanderer, Tue 23 Mar 2010, 22:49, Reply)

I understand that,
but it's not a personal affront to the wait staff.
( Batshitmentalist is sane for once, Tue 23 Mar 2010, 22:51, Reply)

I agree, it's not the waiters fault the US has such an appaling system
It's just astounding that collectively people accept it. There was an outcry in the UK when it was brought to peoples attention that companies were using tips to make up minimum wage, and the law was (or possibly is on the way to) being changed to stop it.
(Bazongaloid, Tue 23 Mar 2010, 22:52, Reply)

I think it's a dick move to not pay them at least minimum wage in the first place
I tip when it's required, but I'm not going to pay over the odds just because someone landed a shit job and needs me to make up his salary.
( fuck shit up the best you never had, Tue 23 Mar 2010, 22:52, Reply)

That may be
but that's the way it's currently set up, and there isn't enough pressure on Washington to get the labor laws about waiting tables changed. The system is there and will stay there until the pressure is great for it to change. I don't see that happening soon.
( Wanderer, Tue 23 Mar 2010, 23:07, Reply)

Well I'm still not going to participate in it unless I feel it's necessary. You don't tip people at garages or in shops, so why should waiting staff be treated differently?
If they don't like it, fuck off and get another job.
( fuck shit up the best you never had, Tue 23 Mar 2010, 23:18, Reply)

For many, that's the best job they can get.
Personally I learned another trade so I could get out of that racket, but for a young person without an education frequently that's all they can manage to get. The labor laws are written in such a way as to rape those who don't get good tips.

If a teacher complains that she's not paid enough, should she also be told to fuck off and find a better paying job? Or should she be compensated more? How about the guy who hauls trash? Should he too be told to fuck off? How about the cleaning crew at your office?

If no one waited on tables, who would serve you? How would the restaurants operate? Would they all become self-serve places like McDonald's? Would that be good?
( Wanderer, Tue 23 Mar 2010, 23:26, Reply)

Also, I take great offence at the assertion that
if I can afford it I shouldn't bitch, what a pathetic attitude to have. You're saying if you can afford to get ripped off then you should get ripped off, if you can afford to replace your stuff, you should't care if it gets stolen etc. etc.
(Bazongaloid, Tue 23 Mar 2010, 22:55, Reply)

Different circumstances.
Tipping is open and obvious. Standard is 15%, bare minimum is 10%, and anything more is rewarding good service. One should figure in a tip as part of the cost of eating at a restaurant.

Being ripped off is being deceived. You don't know that it's coming. Wholly different ballgame.

I stand by my statement: if tipping a waiter costs too much for your comfort, you shouldn't be eating at the restaurant. Restaurants are a luxury, not a necessity. If I'm so broke that five dollars is going to make a real difference to me, I'll go to a grocery store and buy food there.
( Wanderer, Tue 23 Mar 2010, 23:05, Reply)

It's not that you need a law against tipping
It's making it the law that minimum wage means minimum wage, not expecting the customer to make up the money you aren't prepared ot pay your staff.

In the UK we have minimum wage that you have to pay everyone, including waiting staff, and our restaurant prices aren't unbearable and the service is I'm sure just as good as the US.

I'm less against tipping in restaurants, especially for good service, it's tipping in bars that is ridiculous. The barman is paid to give me the drink I want, why should I pay him extra for doing his job?

And before you ask, yes, I have been a barman.
(Bazongaloid, Tue 23 Mar 2010, 22:44, Reply)

I see it from both sides.
I worked bar for about 6 years in the UK, and if someone bought me a drink it was a nice little bonus - usually the quid goes in the pocket (depending on policy). No big deal.

Here though, it's a different culture (what was the saying...two worlds divided by a common language?) and mentality. The majority of immigrants just assimilate...it is what it is..to me, it's no longer a big deal, it just is.
( Batshitmentalist is sane for once, Tue 23 Mar 2010, 22:49, Reply)

This is the problem really
people just accept it without question.
(Bazongaloid, Tue 23 Mar 2010, 22:53, Reply)

On the flip side,
how do you feel about immigrants to the UK that try to change "how the norm" is?

It's swings and roundabouts.
( Batshitmentalist is sane for once, Tue 23 Mar 2010, 22:55, Reply)

Immigration is central to "British" norms.
Look at curry, but I'm not suggesting that this should be driven by immigrants, I would expect people born and bred in the US to have the brain power to try and fix clearly broken systems.
(Bazongaloid, Tue 23 Mar 2010, 22:56, Reply)

Fair enough, but it is what it is.
Anyway, this thread had nothing to do with tipping. What about the black widows!
( Batshitmentalist is sane for once, Tue 23 Mar 2010, 22:58, Reply)

I don't like spiders
in Australia I saw a Huntsman about 7 inches across (and that's a small one) run behind a picture frame. I made someone else take it outside and get rid of it.
(Bazongaloid, Tue 23 Mar 2010, 22:59, Reply)

Gayer
Pfft, I'd have shit myself and run out of the house screaming
( fuck shit up the best you never had, Tue 23 Mar 2010, 23:04, Reply)

I was on my patio making
quite "yelp" noises....then when I turned the flame on I was THE TERMINATOR!
( Batshitmentalist is sane for once, Tue 23 Mar 2010, 23:05, Reply)

Oh, and sorry - I know how you feel about animals,
but black widows are just fucking evil creatures
( Batshitmentalist is sane for once, Tue 23 Mar 2010, 23:06, Reply)

I wouldn't hesitate in nuking it. They're toxic and shit. Very different to feesh.

( fuck shit up the best you never had, Tue 23 Mar 2010, 23:20, Reply)