You know, I thought Naked Ape was being ironic.
At least - I hope he was.
( Larry Vest One day at a time, sweet Jesus, FFS., Wed 21 Apr 2010, 13:12, 2 replies, latest was 16 years ago)

He speaks sense
give people back self-respect. I'm not one of those ghastly people who thinks welfare should be abolished (we know the type of person), or that we should all be happy little cogs (that's socialism for you) but I do think that one of the integral problems of the moment is the lack of motivation and drive in society, the belief that it is both possible and better to do nothing than to do something
( Amberl was stripey and dominated Europe, Wed 21 Apr 2010, 13:16, Reply)

Woah there nelly
Socialism is not about abolishing welfare, you're thinking of Communism.
( Kroney, Wed 21 Apr 2010, 13:18, Reply)

I meant the second bit
happy little cogs :) Have edited for better grammar
( Amberl was stripey and dominated Europe, Wed 21 Apr 2010, 13:19, Reply)

Fair enough
That's a particular little bugbear of mine. As a borderline socialist, I do get tired of being compared to Stalin :D
( Kroney, Wed 21 Apr 2010, 13:26, Reply)

it's the moustache that does it
and the snappy threads
( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Wed 21 Apr 2010, 13:35, Reply)

Why? I'm not suggesting that the benfit system should be scrapped or that people should be left to starve on the streets
I'm simply suggesting that until people take responsibility for their lives and work towards enriching them themselves, we will constantly be propping up a society unwilling work for itself.

A housing estate with social issues will not get better with more policing, a youth centre, reach out programs and social workers unless the people there want to make better lives for themselves and are willing to put i the graft to effect that change. (this is an example)


"Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country"
( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Wed 21 Apr 2010, 13:17, Reply)

I would agree that people need to take an interest
But interest does not equal competence. There is a big difference between giving someone a voice and forcing them to take responsibility for something when they only have a passing knowledge or experience. The point of a government/administration is to provide those services that are needed by the community, but that require experience or resources that individual members of the community don't have. Abdicating from that obligation, particularly when you're only doing so to a) save the government money and b) woo the electorate by making them feel powerful, is irresponsible in the extreme. Or so I reckon, anyway.

Besides, those who are competent and committed already have the chance to get involved with their community, as school governers or local councillors for example. It's already nigh-on impossible to get people to care about local council elections. That problem's not going to be solved by letting a bunch of busybodies run your local school.
(Concrete Cow, Wed 21 Apr 2010, 14:08, Reply)