Bugger
So I've missed the deadline for registering to vote in the Election through being an absent-minded prick. I downloaded the form, filled it in, signed it, dated it, put it in an envelope, put in by the door and promptly forgot about it for eight days. I'm now trying to find out if I'm on the Electoral Roll in the probably vain hope that I haven't failed miserably at democracy.

Needless to say, I feel like a right bell-end. Although, it has to be said, there's absolutely nobody who really represents my political viewpoint anymore.

What do you predict to see in the new Government? I strongly suspect it's going to be a highly ineffective coalition of Libs and Labour. I don't think anybody wants Brown again, the proletariat doesn't want to see the Tories get into power and nobody thinks the Lib Dems are capable of the job.
( Kroney, Wed 21 Apr 2010, 12:44, 135 replies, latest was 16 years ago)

We will see the same old shit that we always get
i.e. policies designed to try and paper over the cracks quickly and make the government look successful, whilst ignoring the deep seated social and economic issues that cause the original problems.

This is the fundamental flaw in democracy; the politicians have to be popular.
( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Wed 21 Apr 2010, 12:48, Reply)

Gordon Brown is one of the few decent men in politics just now.
I hear a lot of kiddies plan to vote Liberal 'for a change of government' - mostly they have not voted before. If that is correct there could be a whole lot of New Votes about which will cock up any predictions.
Tories will always shaft you: Labour might not. It's that simple.

Edit: and buggar it, I am too busy to really get up on the soapbox today. So apologies for not being able to run with this thread.
( Larry Vest One day at a time, sweet Jesus, FFS., Wed 21 Apr 2010, 12:50, Reply)

what?
Gordon Brown is not a decent man. He is a flesh-waste. And as for Tories always screwing you, what has Labour done to us in the last few years? Messed us up royally. When history is written it will not deal kindly with Tony Blair and Gordon Brown
( Amberl was stripey and dominated Europe, Wed 21 Apr 2010, 12:52, Reply)

Remember a vote for the Conservatives is a vote for Thatcher.
The tories will never change, it isn't in their interest to do so. Thatcher screwed the country and no-one will ever put that right now.
(porkylips looks better as the sun goes down., Wed 21 Apr 2010, 12:56, Reply)

no offence
but that is ridiculous. A vote for the Conservatives is a vote for Thatcher? By that reasoning we should never vote for Labour again- a vote for Labour is a vote for Tony Blair. The Tories generally fix economic problems, and I like their manifesto especially in education. Labour are fuckers through and through.
( Amberl was stripey and dominated Europe, Wed 21 Apr 2010, 12:59, Reply)

It's not as ridiculous as you think.
The underlying principles of modern conservatism have not changed in the way labour has (not for the better I might add). A vote for labour is not a vote for Blair, the same way as a vote for the libs is not a vote for Jeremy Thorpe. In my view the conservatives are the only party who cannot afford to change due to their vested interest in the financial status quo. The other parties can and will change.
(porkylips looks better as the sun goes down., Wed 21 Apr 2010, 13:03, Reply)

you mean a government
like Labour that has financially fucked the economy needs to change? Damn right they do. Modern conservatism has changed. It cares about people more than Labour does. Individual people, not some mealy-mouthed socialism that Gordon Brown has wet dreams about and will never implement.
( Amberl was stripey and dominated Europe, Wed 21 Apr 2010, 13:06, Reply)

Bankers fucked the country. Not Brown.
And you know it.
( Larry Vest One day at a time, sweet Jesus, FFS., Wed 21 Apr 2010, 13:09, Reply)

LoL.
Just wait. The tories never reveal their true colours until they are in power. Then all bets are off and it's open trough time. The tories only care about individual people of the right type. The rest are tax fodder. To my mind labour are currently shite because they have forgotten their roots and what they are supposed to stand for.
(porkylips looks better as the sun goes down., Wed 21 Apr 2010, 13:10, Reply)

Wow
You genuinely don't think the last few years have happened do you? Labour are shit, they've fucked the entire country up. What they've done is worse than Thatcher in most respects. Even setting the economy aside (which is not solely the bankers fault) let's look at their trackrecord in education, health, and most of all foreign policy. Iraq anyone?
( Amberl was stripey and dominated Europe, Wed 21 Apr 2010, 13:13, Reply)

Well I'm looking.
Education - what I see locally are six school all with new buildings and fully staffed. And only one of them lost their playing fields in the last Tory rule luckily.
NHS - two massive shiny new hospitals for me to choose from.
Iraq - oh, wait, that was American foreign policy. Which we were tied into to pay back Maggie's Falklands fun. America has a rather rightist capitalist government if I recall.
( Larry Vest One day at a time, sweet Jesus, FFS., Wed 21 Apr 2010, 13:22, Reply)

NHS spending has risen by 100% since 1997

Do you think that there has been a 100% increase in quality? this is a classic example of throwing money at a problem. Money borrowed by Labour that we will be paying back for the rest of our lives.

Labour have been shit even when they have borrowed more money than most people can egven imagine. What would have happened had they lived within their means? It doesn't bear thinking about.
( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Wed 21 Apr 2010, 13:27, Reply)

Here you go
This is what *I* see
Education - Massive amounts of money wasted on shiny new schools, falling standards of literacy, abdication of teacher power
NHS - Don't even bother telling me a shiny new hospital is worth it. I've spent six months in a hell-hole being absused and mistreated by overworked nurses. Or how about the millions spent on a non-working IT system, or the increase in administration, or the new PFIs?
Iraq - Oh wait Tony Blair couldn't lick George Bush's arse enough. He was Labour. Yeeeeah that was payback for the Falklands. No it was a weak man playing a bad hand badly
( Amberl was stripey and dominated Europe, Wed 21 Apr 2010, 13:30, Reply)

I worked in two of those school - still work in one. They are both very succesfull.
That's what I see.
I had to use one of the new hospitals. Very efficient, and while there was a lot of 'management' about, and I did feel a bit like product, the job was done.
That's what I saw.
Iraq - we shouldn't be there. Blair got out as soon as he realised he was not going to come up smelling of roses. But I'm glad you agree it was American policy. Brown would never have got us in.
( Larry Vest One day at a time, sweet Jesus, FFS., Wed 21 Apr 2010, 13:40, Reply)

I've had a very wide education
I've been to every type of school, and both my parents are teachers, and I can safely say that standards have dropped massively. Being a teacher is like being a social worker at the moment.
As for the hospitals on the surface they look good (sometimes) but I'm not merely basing my judgement on my own bad experience, but on other people I know who come out with what are pretty much horror stories. As NakedApe pointed out, it's simply not improved to the extent it should have with it's budget.
Iraq is just a fuck-up plain and simple, but it's Labour's fault for getting in there in the first place.
( Amberl was stripey and dominated Europe, Wed 21 Apr 2010, 13:45, Reply)

Foreigner
Hi. Sorry to but in - especially as I'm a foreigner and thus don't have a vote in the UK.

From my (limited) knowledge of the Falklands War, why would Iraq be pay-back for the Americans when it was Britain -v- Argentina, without American involvement?
(JohntheDane, Wed 21 Apr 2010, 13:42, Reply)

Curious Incident sort of thing.

( Larry Vest One day at a time, sweet Jesus, FFS., Wed 21 Apr 2010, 13:45, Reply)

You really think that the Conservatives care about the common man?
They have absolutley no idea about real life. How can they know what's best for us.
( girlinthehole, Wed 21 Apr 2010, 13:13, Reply)

How can they not have an idea about real life?
Or rather any less so than any other politician. Take a look at Nick Clegg's background why don't you?

I think they've got a better handle on what is needed than Labour does
( Amberl was stripey and dominated Europe, Wed 21 Apr 2010, 13:14, Reply)

you can say the same for most politicians
believe it or not, conservatives are people as well, and are much the same sort of people as the other parties, with a sprinkling more toffs.
( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Wed 21 Apr 2010, 13:15, Reply)

to be honest
the Lib Dems have more toffs than the Conservatives in my university society
( Amberl was stripey and dominated Europe, Wed 21 Apr 2010, 13:19, Reply)

university societies can fuck off
the tosser who runs the Lib Dem society at Exeter Uni is on the Labour propaganda saying that as Lib Dems won't get in he's voting Labour to stop the Tories.

outrageous behaviour from anyone, let alone someone "involved" at university level.
( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Wed 21 Apr 2010, 13:23, Reply)

That's the cuntiest thing I've heard all week
students are generally pricks and I say that in the full knowledge that I am one myself
( Amberl was stripey and dominated Europe, Wed 21 Apr 2010, 13:26, Reply)

I couldn't believe it when I read it

( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Wed 21 Apr 2010, 13:34, Reply)

www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2010/04/21/conservative-general-election-candidate-rates-average-family-home-at-1million-115875-22200124/
( girlinthehole, Wed 21 Apr 2010, 13:20, Reply)

that guy is obviously an idiot
also, I didn't say they could relate to the man on the street, just that they weren't really any different from any other politician
( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Wed 21 Apr 2010, 13:23, Reply)

I know but it made me laugh.

( girlinthehole, Wed 21 Apr 2010, 13:42, Reply)

That is a very stupid thing to say
However if you live in London, then million pound house are not that unusual, and the family living there may have been there for years riding the property boom. It doesn't mean they are exponetially richer then anyone else.
( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Wed 21 Apr 2010, 13:24, Reply)

well
(a) notice the word 'claiming'
(b) the lack of actual statistics
(c) the lack of comparisons
(d) it's The Mirror
( Amberl was stripey and dominated Europe, Wed 21 Apr 2010, 13:24, Reply)

All true: we agree on one more thing!
Pity about all the rest.
( Larry Vest One day at a time, sweet Jesus, FFS., Wed 21 Apr 2010, 13:29, Reply)

I don't care about the common man.
Filthy commoners. Ugh.
( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Wed 21 Apr 2010, 13:32, Reply)

I'm not rich enough to not care about the common man
yet
( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Wed 21 Apr 2010, 13:34, Reply)

Thatcher
screwed the Prols, not the country.
( Kroney, Wed 21 Apr 2010, 13:00, Reply)

Not quite.
So while the rest of the world was propping up their ailing heavy industry base and infrastructure against the day things would improve (and they have), Thatcher dismantled ours thoroughly and effectively. Way to go.
(porkylips looks better as the sun goes down., Wed 21 Apr 2010, 13:05, Reply)

I can't disagree with that
But nobody in the Eighties, either in this country or any others could tell what was going to happen in the future. Unlike other European countries at the time, we went for a purely financial economy. Yeah, that screwed most people at the time who didn't have or couldn't afford the education necessary to get into the financial sector and as a humanitarian decision, it was a shit one.

However, her aim was to fix the economy the quickest way she could. Which she did. The Unions, whilst a good idea in general, had grown too powerful and paralised the country by mobolising the workforce every single time something happened that they didn't like. Thatcher did what she thought she needed to do to get rid of them. Once they were gone, the economy started to recover.

I think the whole thing could have been avoided if power-hungry Union bosses hadn't subverted the unions to feed their own agendas, but that's the problem inherent in Socialism, people are naturally out for themselves.
( Kroney, Wed 21 Apr 2010, 13:11, Reply)

My father in law would agree with you on this one.
Which, considering he worked down the mines during the 1980's is perhaps a bit strange. He thought the sun shone out of Thatcher's arse. Staunch Tory through and through (but by his own admission is unconvinced by Cameron).
( Davros' Granddad a voice of calm reason in a world of spastics., Wed 21 Apr 2010, 13:42, Reply)

Just goes to show
That you can't judge a voter by his party. I think Thatcher made some terrible decisions with awful implications for society on a humanist level, but saying that she wrecked the country isn't fair. Certainly you can't expect somebody like Thatcher to be too worried about the people when she's pursuing her goals.

She didn't wreck the country, but I think it's fair to say that when she fixed the country, she shafted society.
( Kroney, Wed 21 Apr 2010, 13:56, Reply)

This phrase annoys me soo much, voting on performance from 28 years ago is retarded
Labour didn't exactly have a great time in the 70's but I don't automatically rule them out because of this. i rule them out as they are a bunch of incompetent cunts now.
( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Wed 21 Apr 2010, 13:00, Reply)

Hmm - I see we have a few differences.
But we agree about Blair. He has moved on to lusher pastures and getting fat on it. History will probably record Blair as a continuation of Tory government and note the start of socialist work from Brown taking over.
( Larry Vest One day at a time, sweet Jesus, FFS., Wed 21 Apr 2010, 13:01, Reply)

I don't know if I can agree with that
the Tories generally take a line that favours the rich over the poor. That'll shaft you if you're the wrong side of the line, but their policies have had quantifiable benefits to the economy and they have reliably fixed problems the Labour party has caused. Labour have been in power three times within the last thirty or so years and each time there's been a significant recession. Each time the Tories were subsequently voted in, the economy improved.

I don't have any faith in Labour being capable of fixing the economic problems we currently have. The Tories have form in this area.

Incidentally, I don't like saying this. If I'm anything, I'm broadly old Labour in political leanings.
( Kroney, Wed 21 Apr 2010, 12:55, Reply)

Do you really think the bankers who caused this recession are Labour voters?
Wouldn't you query the motives of the 100 top companies' CEOs when they support Cameron? When Rose - who is/was GB's highest earning exec - attacks Brown don't you think it is entirely out of self interest?
( Larry Vest One day at a time, sweet Jesus, FFS., Wed 21 Apr 2010, 13:07, Reply)

Of course, but like it or not, business is the powerhouse of the economy

Labour has tried to grow the economy by increasing the size of the state to an enormous percentage of overall GDP, but this approach is limited and consequently we are now burdened with an enormous bill to pay for it.
( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Wed 21 Apr 2010, 13:12, Reply)

Yes but greedy and thoughtless business is the ruination of us all.
See: Bankers.
(porkylips looks better as the sun goes down., Wed 21 Apr 2010, 13:15, Reply)

It doesn't matter who they vote for
they did what they did after Labour relaxed the rules.
( Kroney, Wed 21 Apr 2010, 13:13, Reply)

"Each time the Tories were subsequently voted in, the economy improved".
Apart from that slight blip in the mid 80's and later the 90's when unemployment shot up to record levels, traditional industry was royally fucked over and interest rates hit 15%, forcing thousands of homeowners to have their properties reposessed as they could no longer afford to pay their mortgages.
( Davros' Granddad a voice of calm reason in a world of spastics., Wed 21 Apr 2010, 13:11, Reply)

Tories like high interest rates, and it would be one of their first tasks.
If you had investments or capital earning 0.1% that's what you would do. Of course, if you've got a mortgage on a shitty ex-council house higher interest rates hurt. Guess who the Tories listen to?
( Larry Vest One day at a time, sweet Jesus, FFS., Wed 21 Apr 2010, 13:15, Reply)

I own an ex-council flat and I earn well more national average wage,
a massive interest rate rise would wipe me out. It's not always the lowest earners who get screwed.
( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Wed 21 Apr 2010, 13:20, Reply)

Nobody is more pissed off than I am that my ISA is effectively worth fuck all at the moment.
But there's a balance between sensible interest rates and ones that are affecting ordinary people's quality of life to the point where they may have no roof over their heads.
( Davros' Granddad a voice of calm reason in a world of spastics., Wed 21 Apr 2010, 13:23, Reply)

Echo.
Please bear that in mind when making your mark.
( Larry Vest One day at a time, sweet Jesus, FFS., Wed 21 Apr 2010, 13:32, Reply)

Then again I own my home outright
So don't give a shit about interest rates.

I'm kidding, of course. Whilst it would be very nice for my savings to be returning a decent investment for me, current low rates are not impacting on my general quality of life. I could be a bit less skint at the end of the month, but the debt I am paying off just now is of my own making and I am doing without stuff in order to get it paid off as quickly as I can. On balance, I'd rather have this situation than one that sees ordinary people being squeezed left right and centre.
( Davros' Granddad a voice of calm reason in a world of spastics., Wed 21 Apr 2010, 13:40, Reply)

I'd be fucked by a big interest rate rise
I almost was a few months back anyway.
( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Wed 21 Apr 2010, 13:43, Reply)

I've been trying to think about how to respond to this
I was pretty young at the time, so my memory's a bit vague. But didn't this coincide when industry and unions were dismantled? In a post higher up I've given my opinion on this, I think.
( Kroney, Wed 21 Apr 2010, 13:40, Reply)

Yeah
but it was still the result of Government policy decisions. Personally I'm of the opinion that this sort of thing is cyclical; for Brown to have claimed that there would be no more periods of boom and bust was utterly laughable, of course there fucking will be. It keeps bloody happening.
( Davros' Granddad a voice of calm reason in a world of spastics., Wed 21 Apr 2010, 14:02, Reply)

Why don't we all just vote Lib dem and see what happens.
They might surprise us.
( girlinthehole, Wed 21 Apr 2010, 13:03, Reply)

I couldn't vote Lib-Dem
I genuinely don't think they have a clue what they'd be getting into
( Amberl was stripey and dominated Europe, Wed 21 Apr 2010, 13:04, Reply)

Thank heavens.
We do agree on something!
( Larry Vest One day at a time, sweet Jesus, FFS., Wed 21 Apr 2010, 13:08, Reply)

Well they've watched the other two fuck it up for so many years that they might have an idea what not to do.

( girlinthehole, Wed 21 Apr 2010, 13:15, Reply)

The lady talks sense.
Unless you give something a go how the hell do you know it will fail?
( Davros' Granddad a voice of calm reason in a world of spastics., Wed 21 Apr 2010, 13:25, Reply)

and what if
everyone votes the independent candidate?

then what the hell happens?
(bamboozled Can hear you getting fatter, Wed 21 Apr 2010, 14:27, Reply)

The Tory policy of getting society to begin think for itself and rely on itself
is the biggest change in governmental policy in years, and one very much for the good.

People, with the right support framwork where necessary, must learn to stand on their own two feet, take responsibility for their lives and the lives of those around them and take pride in being a productive member of society.
( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Wed 21 Apr 2010, 13:08, Reply)

^
absolutely this. Call it individualism if you want, but that is one thing the Tories are calling for that makes absolute sense, a reinvigoration of society and individual self-respect and responsibility
( Amberl was stripey and dominated Europe, Wed 21 Apr 2010, 13:10, Reply)

You know, I thought Naked Ape was being ironic.
At least - I hope he was.
( Larry Vest One day at a time, sweet Jesus, FFS., Wed 21 Apr 2010, 13:12, Reply)

He speaks sense
give people back self-respect. I'm not one of those ghastly people who thinks welfare should be abolished (we know the type of person), or that we should all be happy little cogs (that's socialism for you) but I do think that one of the integral problems of the moment is the lack of motivation and drive in society, the belief that it is both possible and better to do nothing than to do something
( Amberl was stripey and dominated Europe, Wed 21 Apr 2010, 13:16, Reply)

Woah there nelly
Socialism is not about abolishing welfare, you're thinking of Communism.
( Kroney, Wed 21 Apr 2010, 13:18, Reply)

I meant the second bit
happy little cogs :) Have edited for better grammar
( Amberl was stripey and dominated Europe, Wed 21 Apr 2010, 13:19, Reply)

Fair enough
That's a particular little bugbear of mine. As a borderline socialist, I do get tired of being compared to Stalin :D
( Kroney, Wed 21 Apr 2010, 13:26, Reply)

it's the moustache that does it
and the snappy threads
( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Wed 21 Apr 2010, 13:35, Reply)

Why? I'm not suggesting that the benfit system should be scrapped or that people should be left to starve on the streets
I'm simply suggesting that until people take responsibility for their lives and work towards enriching them themselves, we will constantly be propping up a society unwilling work for itself.

A housing estate with social issues will not get better with more policing, a youth centre, reach out programs and social workers unless the people there want to make better lives for themselves and are willing to put i the graft to effect that change. (this is an example)


"Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country"
( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Wed 21 Apr 2010, 13:17, Reply)

I would agree that people need to take an interest
But interest does not equal competence. There is a big difference between giving someone a voice and forcing them to take responsibility for something when they only have a passing knowledge or experience. The point of a government/administration is to provide those services that are needed by the community, but that require experience or resources that individual members of the community don't have. Abdicating from that obligation, particularly when you're only doing so to a) save the government money and b) woo the electorate by making them feel powerful, is irresponsible in the extreme. Or so I reckon, anyway.

Besides, those who are competent and committed already have the chance to get involved with their community, as school governers or local councillors for example. It's already nigh-on impossible to get people to care about local council elections. That problem's not going to be solved by letting a bunch of busybodies run your local school.
(Concrete Cow, Wed 21 Apr 2010, 14:08, Reply)

And save the government a fortune which can help who? Not the proles.
Yoyo poitics is no good for anyone. Give me a benevolent dictatorship any day.
(porkylips looks better as the sun goes down., Wed 21 Apr 2010, 13:14, Reply)

Aside from Thatcher
You and I are actually quite similar in outlook.
( Kroney, Wed 21 Apr 2010, 13:17, Reply)

Raised by a communist and a miners daughter,
And my granny was a suffragette (albeit towards the end of the movement). One of the earliest books I remember reading was the Ragged Trousered Philanthropists. This may have coloured my views somewhat.
(porkylips looks better as the sun goes down., Wed 21 Apr 2010, 13:27, Reply)

My family
are die-hard southern Tories. This may have coloured mine, slightly :)
( Kroney, Wed 21 Apr 2010, 13:31, Reply)

my family
aren't of any particular political affiliation but discussion was encouraged and participated in as long as we could provide valid points. I believe my father may have voted Labour once, but I would guess mostly Tory. As a result my families views range from me (Tory centre-right,) my sister (slightly socialist) and my brother (further right than me but doesn't bother to vote)
( Amberl was stripey and dominated Europe, Wed 21 Apr 2010, 13:36, Reply)

my family generally shares my attitude
"but they're all cunts!"
( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Wed 21 Apr 2010, 13:37, Reply)

you didn't even wait for the response

( Amberl was stripey and dominated Europe, Wed 21 Apr 2010, 13:39, Reply)

?

( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Wed 21 Apr 2010, 13:42, Reply)

the 'but they're all cunts'

( Amberl was stripey and dominated Europe, Wed 21 Apr 2010, 13:51, Reply)

that's the attitude
to politicians
( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Wed 21 Apr 2010, 13:52, Reply)

haha!
I read that entirely wrong. In that I thought you were anticipating the reply 'but they're all cunts' in answer to your family thinking the same as you
( Amberl was stripey and dominated Europe, Wed 21 Apr 2010, 13:55, Reply)

I thought that was the case
:-)

it is true as well
( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Wed 21 Apr 2010, 13:57, Reply)

My MiL is a salt-of-the-earth common prole who votes.........
Conservative. "Because they know how to rule us properly."
I despair, I really do.
(porkylips looks better as the sun goes down., Wed 21 Apr 2010, 13:37, Reply)

see
she knows what's good for her ;)
( Amberl was stripey and dominated Europe, Wed 21 Apr 2010, 13:39, Reply)

SEES RED!!!!
Then sees the smiley. It's just so typical of people who think that their responsibility ends with voting a government in.
(porkylips looks better as the sun goes down., Wed 21 Apr 2010, 13:46, Reply)

Personally I blame Jeremy Kyle and celebrity magazines.
And Jade Goody.
( Davros' Granddad a voice of calm reason in a world of spastics., Wed 21 Apr 2010, 13:26, Reply)

I blame the parents.

(porkylips looks better as the sun goes down., Wed 21 Apr 2010, 13:28, Reply)

I blame YOUR parents.

( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Wed 21 Apr 2010, 13:29, Reply)

SO DO I!
For anything and everything.
(porkylips looks better as the sun goes down., Wed 21 Apr 2010, 13:47, Reply)

Meet the new boss
Same as the old boss.


However, where The Who and I part company is that I am certain the majority of people WILL get fooled again. And again. And again...
( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Wed 21 Apr 2010, 13:29, Reply)

Oh Monty, say not the struggle naught availith.

( Larry Vest One day at a time, sweet Jesus, FFS., Wed 21 Apr 2010, 13:33, Reply)

Dictatorship is the only way forward
Lets be honest most people you meet are far to stupid to have any idea about what they might be voting for anyway.
( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Wed 21 Apr 2010, 13:34, Reply)

this is true
and where the Tories' run things for yourself plans fall down

the reason people don't do things for themselves is because they are far too fucking stupid.
( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Wed 21 Apr 2010, 13:36, Reply)

A person can be intellegent, people are stupid

( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Wed 21 Apr 2010, 13:37, Reply)

Haha 'intellegent', eh?

( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Wed 21 Apr 2010, 14:01, Reply)

you've got to have faith in people
I do. Mostly. Sometimes. Occasionally. OK I'm lying.

But I think we can make a step towards giving people the tools to help themselves, and trusting that in a generation we'll have made a step forward
( Amberl was stripey and dominated Europe, Wed 21 Apr 2010, 13:38, Reply)

They don't need tools or any other buzz word bollocks
They need to have some pride in themselves and their community and they need to realise that the state is there to support you not carry you.
( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Wed 21 Apr 2010, 13:40, Reply)

I have no faith in people whatsoever
I've ceased to be amazed by the depths of stupidity that your average person can plumb.
( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Wed 21 Apr 2010, 13:40, Reply)

This is not being condescending.
I really wish I could be young and hopeful again instead of generally world weary and cynical.
It was a lovely time of my life.
(porkylips looks better as the sun goes down., Wed 21 Apr 2010, 13:41, Reply)

I'm pretty cynical
but if I take the world as it probably is, then it would paralyse me completely into inactivity. I can only care and hope about things if I believe there is the possibility of making something better
( Amberl was stripey and dominated Europe, Wed 21 Apr 2010, 13:49, Reply)

This happened to me
I was cynical at a yojng age. This is going to be the first time I've ever voted. I'm 29.
( Kroney, Wed 21 Apr 2010, 14:06, Reply)

I think, strictly,
they were only going to "get on [their] knees and pray we don't get fooled again," so perhaps they just had a little more optimistic faith in the populace than the rest of us.

Still, if things go my way, and my one vote helps to get Brown out of power and also stop the Tories winning a convincing majority, I might call that a bargain - the best I ever had.
*awaits spanging*
(LongJohnBaldry, Wed 21 Apr 2010, 13:59, Reply)

Spang, spang, and spang thricely

( Larry Vest One day at a time, sweet Jesus, FFS., Wed 21 Apr 2010, 14:00, Reply)

I like kittens.

( Davros' Granddad a voice of calm reason in a world of spastics., Wed 21 Apr 2010, 13:44, Reply)

But would you vote for considering their poor track record in foreign policy and socail mobility?

( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Wed 21 Apr 2010, 13:46, Reply)

It's their fiscal fluffiness that is inherently unforgivable.

(porkylips looks better as the sun goes down., Wed 21 Apr 2010, 13:49, Reply)

Yes. Yes, I would.
There would be no mooslims or terrororialists if all diplomatic relations were built on playing with balls of string.
( Davros' Granddad a voice of calm reason in a world of spastics., Wed 21 Apr 2010, 13:58, Reply)

The Tories would strangle all kittens.

( Larry Vest One day at a time, sweet Jesus, FFS., Wed 21 Apr 2010, 13:47, Reply)

But But but....
What would we fill our dear ladies heads with then?
(porkylips looks better as the sun goes down., Wed 21 Apr 2010, 13:49, Reply)

in order to save the world

( Amberl was stripey and dominated Europe, Wed 21 Apr 2010, 13:50, Reply)

I'm so glad we can keep a sense of humour.
It's what marks us out from the the lower life forms. (You know who I mean.)
( Larry Vest One day at a time, sweet Jesus, FFS., Wed 21 Apr 2010, 13:53, Reply)

*whispers*
you mean the Lib Dems?
( Amberl was stripey and dominated Europe, Wed 21 Apr 2010, 13:54, Reply)

Among others
( Larry Vest One day at a time, sweet Jesus, FFS., Wed 21 Apr 2010, 13:54, Reply)

Poor Northerners
(porkylips looks better as the sun goes down., Wed 21 Apr 2010, 14:07, Reply)

Ugh.

( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Wed 21 Apr 2010, 14:49, Reply)

On the plus side
I am on the Electoral Roll. So it's forging ahead with the voting for whoever's least unrepresentative of my politics time!
( Kroney, Wed 21 Apr 2010, 13:49, Reply)

Ah, the best of a bad bunch theory.
Wise. Very wise.
(porkylips looks better as the sun goes down., Wed 21 Apr 2010, 13:50, Reply)

I hate the fuck ups that Labour has made as much as anyone but you have to think, how would the tories have handled it.
In my estimation probably the same or worse.
( girlinthehole, Wed 21 Apr 2010, 13:50, Reply)

but the Tories would not have overinflated the state to such an extent
resulting in the need to borrow huge sums of money during our prosperous years and leaving us dangerously exposed to the global recession.
( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Wed 21 Apr 2010, 13:53, Reply)

Really, any party's manifesto should read
Vote for us, we promise we'll try to not fuck it up as much as the other bunch would. And if we do, vote for us again so we can try to sort it out.
( Davros' Granddad a voice of calm reason in a world of spastics., Wed 21 Apr 2010, 13:56, Reply)

^ This for honesty.

(porkylips looks better as the sun goes down., Wed 21 Apr 2010, 14:06, Reply)

see I'd say probably the same or slightly better
and at least their chancellor wouldn't have looked like he was out of Thunderbirds
( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Wed 21 Apr 2010, 13:54, Reply)

I think you're very wrong
the Tories would not have increased spending as much, and they are now saying they will cut it radically, the only thing that stopped the country completely imploding was government spending, and that needs to be cut and teh debt paid off, but not as quickly as the Tories say or we will be straight back into recession. The tories have said they won't cunt the NHS, or education, or public services. But they are lying.
(Bazongaloid, Wed 21 Apr 2010, 14:06, Reply)

you've got to be with me on the Thunderbirds thing though right?

( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Wed 21 Apr 2010, 14:09, Reply)

As a sidenote
I think we need somebody to stop talking in politics and present his case clearly. Too many politicians are dressing up what they say in order to present it in a positive, popularist way.

If somebody cam along and said "right, we're fucked. We owe more money than we make and we're going to have to make cuts to fix it. This is what we need to do, this is what we have the money to do, this is what we'd like to do if we have the chance and here's a list of what's currently impossible. We need to get the money from somewhere and we're going to have to cut back on these things for this long."

I'd vote for him, would you?
( Kroney, Wed 21 Apr 2010, 14:01, Reply)

I would
a lot of people wouldn't. That's why David Cameron is being circumspect about cuts (though it's the only way forward) the average person can't bear the thought and would rather a comforting lie

Edit: which reminds me. I saw a Unite poster with a picture of a massive axe on it saying 'this is what the Tories will do if they come to power.' Of course they will you massive twats. It's what needs to be done!
( Amberl was stripey and dominated Europe, Wed 21 Apr 2010, 14:02, Reply)

No, if government spending is massively slashed as quickly
as the tories are going to do it, then the economy will go straight back into recession.
(Bazongaloid, Wed 21 Apr 2010, 14:07, Reply)

I don't think that's true
I think the cuts that they want are appropriate for the time and place though there are some things that could be fixed
( Amberl was stripey and dominated Europe, Wed 21 Apr 2010, 14:09, Reply)

I don't think you work in an industry
that would not exist any more without the government spending over the last few years. Yes we need cuts, but I think tax rises have their part to play too.

The problem is the speed of the cuts, we are barely out of the recession and if jobs are cut (which they will be in the tories plans) then it's going to go straight back in.
(Bazongaloid, Wed 21 Apr 2010, 14:13, Reply)

But that is what Clegg has done
they have actually set out what cuts need to be made, rather than talking about "efficiency savings" which Cameron is on record as saying is "just a trick" and which Labour should have dealt with already.
(Bazongaloid, Wed 21 Apr 2010, 14:05, Reply)

that was my opinion as well
it sounds like they've thought through their policies which makes them sound less like lies.
( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Wed 21 Apr 2010, 14:10, Reply)

You fancy Nick Clegg.

( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Wed 21 Apr 2010, 14:25, Reply)

I fancy his manifesto where it says
"scrap the '50% of young people going to university' target".
There's no sexier sound to an academic.
( crackhouseceilidhband Fuck off back to Mumsnet, Wed 21 Apr 2010, 14:39, Reply)

Oh good lord, if they actually did that I would want to sex him so hard
ANYTHING to curb the revolting surfeit of undergraduates in this department.
(LongJohnBaldry, Wed 21 Apr 2010, 14:51, Reply)

They want to promote science as well...

( crackhouseceilidhband Fuck off back to Mumsnet, Wed 21 Apr 2010, 14:51, Reply)

By Jupiter's Gofling Trousers! I think I love him

(LongJohnBaldry, Wed 21 Apr 2010, 14:54, Reply)