But swipey
We don't have any jobs for people who don't have an education, and the reason everyone is being forced into university is because there is no vocational alternative.

It's typical Tory dogma, cut everything as you should be able to support yourself. Now, if you already have an education, then yes, you probably can support yourself, but you can't just switch from having a government supported populace to having a self supporting populace in a year.

If you want people to get a job, there have to be jobs for them to get, and there simply aren't. If you want people with no education to get jobs when they eventually are created, you have to educate them. It's not a difficult concept.
(Bazongaloid, Fri 12 Nov 2010, 11:59, 1 reply, 15 years ago)

the problem with this, like all liberal arguments
is that it assumes everybody is happy to be educated and to work at the end of it. and the problem is... that a lot of people aren't!

so a system which is designed to help people in need gets raped, and you end up with a minority supporting the majority, and getting pretty pissed off with it.
( rachelswipe with a fork, Fri 12 Nov 2010, 12:09, Reply)

It's this attitude that a "minority" are supporting the majority, they aren't. Most people in this country are in work, and if they are in work they are paying taxes which support all teh things we like to have like roads and education and healthcare.

You argue that I'm assuming that everyone is happy to be educated and that actually most people aren't, but that's also clearly an exaggeration.

The education system is in need of help, but the solution is not to suddenly punish people for not helping themselves, at the moment they have no choice, you have to give people an opportunity to help themselves before you can start cracking down on people who really don't want to help themselves.
(Bazongaloid, Fri 12 Nov 2010, 12:16, Reply)

fine
but they've had since ww2 when the benefits system was introduced.

it isn't ever going to work as you say, and as it should do, is it?!
( rachelswipe with a fork, Fri 12 Nov 2010, 12:23, Reply)

That's a stupidly spurious comment from you Swipey
Lots of people used to have manual jobs, but, thanks to the complete destruction of manufacturing in this country, those people had their lives destroyed and were either put on benefits or signed off "sick".

There is no short term fix to this problem, but the Tories aren't trying to fix it, they are just using the world wide economic crisis as an excuse for giving "the poor" a good kicking.
(Bazongaloid, Fri 12 Nov 2010, 12:30, Reply)

If Labour had an ounce of sense, they would have cut back on benefits as well.
The country owes 4.3 trillion pounds. At the same time, you can claim housing benefit even if you do actually have a job. Not a menial job either, a decent one. Councils are having to buy huge houses to home people in because the law requires that each child has its own bedroom.

The benefits system needs to be in place. The benefits system we currently have is too open to abuse in a manner we can no longer afford as a country.
( Kroney, Fri 12 Nov 2010, 12:39, Reply)