So what you're saying is...
Waahh waaahh waahhhh, it's not fair, I wanna free education paid for by everyone else while I get pissed and pretend to study for my degree in tourism or whatever other banal, useless, irrelevant course?

Perhaps you mean that all the tax payers who earn less than degree qualified ex students should get a rebate or lump sum payment for the free university they didn't attend, after all it's not fair that they should pay for it if they don't use it is it?

News fucking flash, you've already had a free compulsory education, if you don't fucking like paying for your *OPTIONAL* *VOLUNTARY* further education could I suggest you fuck off to another country where they give it away for free.

What? You can't think of any other country where students don't have to pay? No, neither can I...
(ceeej, Fri 12 Nov 2010, 8:00, 4 replies)

Off the top of my head I can think of Scotland (if you're Scottish, hooray for Scottish MPs voting on English and Welsh tuition fees they then cop out of) and Finland. Furthermore, if you don't have people doing degrees in subjects where a degree is *required* rather than optional due to costs, this costs the country more in a lack of capable scientists, teachers, engineers etc. The opportunity cost of cutting the number of people studying hard degrees is fewer educators for the next generation, loss of technical businesses in Britain, and a loss in international research position. Britain has a small percentage of the world's population but produces a much greater percentage of research.
( Labmonkey last thought about having another coffee on, Fri 12 Nov 2010, 10:37, closed)

Oops, forgot about Scotland, didn't know about Finland
I reckon if we dumped all the bullshit degree courses (tourism, surf science etc..) and ploughed the money into the ones that matter (engineering, sciences, medicine etc..) then we could create a very useful generation of graduates.

Unfortunately, we've become blinded and apparently believe that quantity is more important than quality so it doesn't matter *what* your degree is for, it just matters that you have one. Thus, all the crappy degrees that are almost given away on cereal boxes are sucking the funding out of ones that might do some good. Recent graduates I know personally make me sick, they have little or no interest in the subjects they chose.

I've no problem paying for a degree for someone who makes a positive contribution to the public sector or community, indeed, I believe that every graduate who can should get their fees paid for working in the public sector, a chunk paid off per month or quarter, whatever. If they choose to work in the private sector then they can pay their own fees or persuade their employer to pay them. Either way, it's a win for the taxpayer.

Rant at least clarified I hope.
(ceeej, Fri 12 Nov 2010, 20:48, closed)

Wales doesn't have tuition fees
but you have to be living in Wales and at a Welsh Uni. Check your facts.
(TheFlyingOnion. looking forward to, Sat 13 Nov 2010, 9:48, closed)

" it's not fair that they should pay for it if they don't use it is it?"
Fucking hell, you're really raising the bar on conspicuous stupidity here. Or do you think I can apply for a rebate on the grounds of never having been to hospital, not driving on the roads, or not drawing a state pension?

You don't pay for students' tuition fees. You pay your tax, at which point, it is no longer your money - so stop fucking whining about it.
( Happy Phantom has been to Hastings, Brighton, and Eastbourne too, Fri 12 Nov 2010, 18:24, closed)

On the other hand,
why should I pay my taxes so wasters in shitty jobs should get tax credits and pay less tax than me because they never bothered to pay attention at school and have 2 Es at GCSE and couldn't be arsed to better themselves by getting a degree?

No I don't actually think that, and while I agree that the HE sector needs radical reform to halt the trend in binmen needing degrees in Waste Management studies, the objective of the system in giving bright kids increased knowledge in a variety of subjects to enable them to enrich the country's economy is fundamentally sound.
(The man with the flan swashed his buckle on, Fri 12 Nov 2010, 21:14, closed)

I'm a physics graduate
you presumptuous moron.

If you read the second of my replies, I'm all for getting rid of the pointless courses and returning to on-the-job training. Tour managers do not need a fucking degree. But the fact is that the employer used to pay for that stuff because they thought it was important to have employees that knew what they were doing. Similarly the Government used to pay for students to learn because it was important to have people who knew things for the sake of the country.

Now the businesses think that the training should be paid for by the future employees - and I think that's wrong. The Government thinks the learning should be paid for by the learners - and I think that's wrong, especially when they all had the benefits of a free education.

As for my *optional* *voluntary* education, I'm more than prepared to pay a higher tax bracket as a result of my education, which will then pay for the education of the next generation. And I'm happy to have the tax rate raised for that.

I just think the idea of putting students tens of thousands of pounds into debt at the beginning of their careers is one of the stupidest and most unfair things I've ever heard, and is giving the current generation a massive, massive disadvantage compared to the ones that have come before them.

Your principles are different, that's fine. Don't tell me what mine should be.
(cypherspace is not a toaster, Sat 13 Nov 2010, 12:05, closed)

lols
just read *your* other reply and actually we probably agree on many things.
(cypherspace is not a toaster, Sat 13 Nov 2010, 12:12, closed)