So it decends to personal insults!
You really do know how to make a valid argument, don't you!

For what it’s worth, their campaign would have been taken much better if they’d had a coherent message. As it is, most are a bunch of crusties with banners complaining about anything involving money, be it related to capitalism or not, without seeing the irony and certainly without understanding how economies work. Where do they think the money’s coming from to cover the story, police the site and arrange for their eviction?

Unfortunately having little understanding of a subject certainly doesn’t stop people from having a very vocal opinion about it. As you proved in your initial post.
(Kliper Filllets Getting noticed by twats on the internet since, Tue 1 Nov 2011, 12:27, 1 reply)

your failure to independantly research even the basic fundamentals of what the #Occupy movement
is so desperately trying to tell everyone makes the veins in my eyeballs bulge with contempt.
You just pretty much spewed word-for-word an 'unbiased' faux news 'coverage'.
Cheers for that. I like to mix talkback radio stylee offensiveness in sometimes.
(Gritty, yet fluffy. kipperpillock is obsessed with me =), Tue 1 Nov 2011, 13:47, closed)

Occupy has no coherent message
It has access to the same media outlets as any other protest group. It remained tight lipped for as long as it could because the more lucid members knew full well that it couldn't put out a simple mission statement. It is the People's Front of Judea writ large for the 21st century. When the London group did finally put out a list of requests/demands, it was straight out the big book of centralised economies and given that I'm supposed to be part of the "99% (I'm certainly not in the 1%) it had me running for the hills rather than manning the barricades.

Pretending that there is any great pattern to protests across the planet is also pretty shaky. The "indignants" in Spain want their employment law loosened to give them a slight chance of getting a permenant job before death. This is totally at odds with the resistance to proposed employment laws here.

Like pretty much every protest movement in the last fifteen years, it is a self congratulatory circle jerk that allows those protesting to feel better about themselves whilst never once putting them at risk of having to show the courage of their convictions.
(Leonard Hatred briefly did some work on, Tue 1 Nov 2011, 14:28, closed)

You think now that camping out in New york City in a blizzard - in a tent - is not showing the courage of one's convictions?
Shall they set themselves on fucking fire to convince you?
They are not going anywhere. They will be here next year and they will be bigger.
When your mind wakes up from your 20th century need for a lineal 'storyline' and you will see that the complex dialogue surrounding #Occupy does not fit into neat 5 minute news bite,
I'd strongly suggest you DO SOME RESEARCH here. Knowledge is power.
(Gritty, yet fluffy. kipperpillock is obsessed with me =), Tue 1 Nov 2011, 14:49, closed)

I seem to recall that people sat outside Greenham common for decades...
...and sure enough nuclear disarmament was achieved. Oh wait.

When the poll tax riots actually succeeded in changing something, you'll note that the mission statement was "return to the old system." The two million residents of Manilla who protested against Marcos rigging their election didn't tack a list of sub demands on the side (they did at least wait for Aquino to assume power first). You can ignore the lessons of history all you like. You can pretend they don't apply. There has been no significant alteration in the way that a message is delivered with any success. That delivery is currently totally beyond the occupy movement. You won't change the 5 minute (more realistically, 90 second) newsbite. You either work with it or fail.

Consider this. The tea party are a bunch of dislikable hardliners. They did however go from nascent protest to political power brokers in about the same time the occupy movement has sat in snowy contemplation. The message is simple, the reinforcement effective and the results clear (if not ideal). Occupy would benefit from learning how they did it.
(Leonard Hatred briefly did some work on, Tue 1 Nov 2011, 15:12, closed)

I'd say that the Tea Party has something of an advantage,
in that it represents the feelings of a significant percentage of members of an existing political party, and they have the support of significant sections of their country's media.
( monster munch person, man, woman... camera... TV?, Tue 1 Nov 2011, 19:11, closed)

There is also the helpful fact that the tea party were bankrolled by the Koch brothers.
The media support is a given when you own a massive stake in in it.

english.aljazeera.net/programmes/peopleandpower/2011/10/2011102683719370179.html
(Gritty, yet fluffy. kipperpillock is obsessed with me =), Tue 1 Nov 2011, 23:58, closed)

"Koch"
It's funny, 'cause it sounds like "cock", which is slang for "penis". The Tea Party are a front for some penis.
( monster munch person, man, woman... camera... TV?, Wed 2 Nov 2011, 8:46, closed)

It's pronounced "coke"

( argyleblanket The man on the roof works for me, Wed 2 Nov 2011, 9:59, closed)

I think you'll find that it is pronounced pee-niz.

( number5 has been fighting tramps and losing., Wed 2 Nov 2011, 13:19, closed)

More excuses, no solutions
That bloke Obama, the one currently President of the United States. His 2008 campaign was financed to a huge extent by grassroots donations. If we accept that the movement is too packed with fiscal illiterates to attract large single donors and supporters, why not try that route?

Could it be that- once again- with no easy to explain aims and objectives, no solutions and (when it boils down to it) no actual consensus even within the protestors themselves, there is nothing to campaign with?
(Leonard Hatred briefly did some work on, Wed 2 Nov 2011, 13:26, closed)

the campaign is still growing
and forming as more people see the value.
There is no hurry to rush into anything.
But the sheer amount of information coming from these people is fucking phenomenal.
(Gritty, yet fluffy. kipperpillock is obsessed with me =), Wed 2 Nov 2011, 14:02, closed)

Seriously, i'll put the kettle on...
I've probably got something Fairtrade somewhere if you want, isn't chamomile soothing or restful?
( number5 has been fighting tramps and losing., Wed 2 Nov 2011, 14:25, closed)

So where is this "information?"
The Beeb has a story about how the Church supports a transaction tax (we'll leave the irony in that for now) with a vague link to the protests but otherwise nothing. Nothing on the front page of the Guardian. The New Statesman, which has been fairly uncritical so far- even sending Rik from the Young Ones impersonator Laurie Penny to "cover" the movement, is asking if the occupy movement actually has a fucking point.

I'm sure the blogosphere is alight. The converted have never been so well preached to. Everyone else, not so much.
(Leonard Hatred briefly did some work on, Wed 2 Nov 2011, 14:38, closed)

Excellent description of Laurie Penny which I will now steal.
She gets right on my ruddy tits.
( Pig Bodine., Wed 2 Nov 2011, 21:39, closed)

Challenge:
Give one clear argument that the protestors are putting forward, and with their solution. Just one. One that can stand to a bit of critisism. One that's not half-baked and wouldn't be circumvented by the city within half an hour.

You can't campaign against something and not expect someone to ask this question.

Step up to the mark or piss off. Your choice...
(Kliper Filllets Getting noticed by twats on the internet since, Tue 1 Nov 2011, 18:16, closed)

wtf? I'm not doing your research for you.
You're gonna have to read a webpage on your own, like a big boy, at some point.

I don't like the choices you gave me, far too narrow and restricted, but as they came out of your mind, I'm not terribly surprised at their limited scope.

I choose daiquiri, instead. I think we can all be happy with that.

*edit*
If I give you your clear argument, will you go away and suck down the business end of a shotgun for me?

-Do NOT put your money in a big bank. Instead bank locally using a building society, credit union or community bank. Encourage all your relatives and friends to do the same. Get them to encourage all THEIR friends and relatives to do the same.

It really isn't terribly difficult to stand up and demand change.
(Gritty, yet fluffy. kipperpillock is obsessed with me =), Wed 2 Nov 2011, 0:04, closed)

Oh, that'll work.
I wonder where all the banks and building societies came from originally... Oh yes, from the very same principle.

Are you suggesting we legislate small local banks so that they can never combine for the sake of efficiency, thus giving poorer returns than the bigger banks? It's like buying Fairtrade chocolate. You'll never compete financially, only ethically. And when it comes to money most people drop their ethics faster than you type responses without thinking.

I'd give your idea a few years before these "friendly" and idealistic banks either get bought out by a bigger bank or went under. And you only need look to history for that. Or don't you learn from history?

Edit: Thinking on your idea, maybe we could use it to stop all crime in the world as well. You stop committing crimes, tell you family and friends to do the same, and they tell their friends and family...
(Kliper Filllets Getting noticed by twats on the internet since, Wed 2 Nov 2011, 7:19, closed)

It's not about economic efficiency anymore, you muppet.
When 9 times out of 10, that 'efficiency' is at the cost of some poor soul having his/her job shipped off to India.

WHO is benefiting from those fabulous fucking 'bigger returns', then? Not the newly unemployed, not their families and not their community or their country.

The majority of the people ARE waking up to this fact, just because you're one of the slower ones doesn't mean you should be so snappy. It's impolite and I WILL GET OFFENDED, YOU CUCK SUCKING CONT.

And do you really think that spreading empathy and love in families, instead of poverty and disenfranchisement, may help lower the crime rate? Then you are a fucking communist hippy scum who smokes crack.
(Gritty, yet fluffy. kipperpillock is obsessed with me =), Wed 2 Nov 2011, 7:33, closed)

Wow! I certainly touched a nerve.
Good idea to answer with unfounded insults and ill-conceived ideas. Makes you look like you really know what you're talking about.

Why do you think people put their money into a bank? Safety? Ease of access from anywhere in the country? A return on their investment? These are the benefits for the people investing, and the more efficient the bank is, the better these factors *could* be. Or are you going to argue against efficiency of any sort, as you only equate it to job losses? Now that's slow thinking.

I like your statement about the majority of people waking up to the facts you mention. It's just like any other "fact" people make up on the spot to prove a point. What are you, a spotty 16 year-old with no experience in the real world, spouting idealistic claptrap? I think you're the one that should look outside and wake up to reality.
(Kliper Filllets Getting noticed by twats on the internet since, Wed 2 Nov 2011, 7:43, closed)

Your world is very black and white, isn't it?
RACIST.
(Gritty, yet fluffy. kipperpillock is obsessed with me =), Wed 2 Nov 2011, 7:55, closed)

Ha ha ha.

(Kliper Filllets Getting noticed by twats on the internet since, Wed 2 Nov 2011, 8:11, closed)

ha. I just saw some red, too.

(Gritty, yet fluffy. kipperpillock is obsessed with me =), Thu 3 Nov 2011, 0:59, closed)

You've been seeing red throughout this whole thread
Just a shame you've not seen sense
(Kliper Filllets Getting noticed by twats on the internet since, Thu 3 Nov 2011, 7:17, closed)

The contempt you have can be nothing for the contempt I have for you.
"Research". Does that mean reading just what you want to hear, or does it mean basing your argument on a Financial Degree and years in the financial sector...

Readjust your tin-foil hat and come back when you've grown up.
(Kliper Filllets Getting noticed by twats on the internet since, Tue 1 Nov 2011, 15:37, closed)

People with years of experience in the Financial Sector
crashed the world economy in 2008.

So, what the fuck, sunshine?
(Gritty, yet fluffy. kipperpillock is obsessed with me =), Wed 2 Nov 2011, 0:00, closed)

Duuuh...
Try thinking a bit. In a QOTW aimed at racism (and arguably against negative stereotypes of groups in general) you certainly do like to show how narrow-minded you are.

You're the sort of person that could argue we shouldn't have any police because of the behaviour of a minority. There will always be people around with years of financial experience because we use money on this planet, you numpty. Are you putting them ALL in the same bucket? Are you suggesting we put the world finances into the hands of people with NO financial experience? If you are, you're more frightening than I though.
(Kliper Filllets Getting noticed by twats on the internet since, Wed 2 Nov 2011, 7:12, closed)

Yes. Putting the world economy in the hands of the 'experts' was a major stunning fucking success.
Well, it was for them.
They got bonuses and bailouts and bigger yachts.

Let's do it again?

www.occupywallst.org/
(Gritty, yet fluffy. kipperpillock is obsessed with me =), Wed 2 Nov 2011, 7:50, closed)

I didn't get a bigger yacht. I feel cheated.
So we put the world economy in the hands of people that aren't experts?

Is that why the OccupyWallSt group's arguments are so unrealistic and, well, lacking in expertise?

Would you entrust your life savings to Alan Sugar or the crusties outside St Pauls? I think we both know who'd make you money and who'd not. And at the end of day, we're both talking about money. Ethics aside, everyone still wants their slice of the pie.

I can't argue against your feelings that there is unfairness in the world, and that there are thieving gits who will screw whole economies just to make a quick buck. I just don't think anyone's put forward a more *sustainable* model for a world economy. There will always be someone out there that will take advantage. What we need are more laws to restrict them. I don't think we need a system based on ethics - some people just don't have them.
(Kliper Filllets Getting noticed by twats on the internet since, Wed 2 Nov 2011, 8:24, closed)

yeah. and you just outted yourself as one of them.

(Gritty, yet fluffy. kipperpillock is obsessed with me =), Wed 2 Nov 2011, 9:06, closed)

"Them" being one of the top 1% controlling the world economy?
Thanks for that. I'm off to wield some power...
(Kliper Filllets Getting noticed by twats on the internet since, Wed 2 Nov 2011, 9:58, closed)

probably a nobler way to spend your time
than arguing with a small be-boned breakfast fish on why the dinosaur ideals he is clinging to so desperately are fucking him over.

Still, different strokes, eh?
(Gritty, yet fluffy. kipperpillock is obsessed with me =), Wed 2 Nov 2011, 12:19, closed)

You do realize
That you've just called yourself the "small be-boned breakfast fish" (sic) with the dinosaur ideals.
(Kliper Filllets Getting noticed by twats on the internet since, Wed 2 Nov 2011, 13:50, closed)

not at all.

(Gritty, yet fluffy. kipperpillock is obsessed with me =), Wed 2 Nov 2011, 14:04, closed)

You mean "Not at all"
Until someone pointed it out to you.
(Kliper Filllets Getting noticed by twats on the internet since, Wed 2 Nov 2011, 14:59, closed)

FLOUNCED ^



what do I win?
(Gritty, yet fluffy. kipperpillock is obsessed with me =), Thu 3 Nov 2011, 1:01, closed)

A brain cell
To keep your other one company.
(Kliper Filllets Getting noticed by twats on the internet since, Thu 3 Nov 2011, 7:22, closed)

Isnt it...
...just the usual Poshos with scarves over their faces?
the 'bollo bollo' accents I heard when I had a nose over there suggests it is...

must be terrible for the poor little darlings not fitting into any aspect of real life


'Shiiit, you gotta be rich in the first place to think like that'
( bigmeuprudeboy is using powerpoint or paint...have MERCY, Tue 1 Nov 2011, 16:19, closed)

You poor soul
I've done my research. Unfortunately The Occupy website doesn't actually give a clear message. Their arbitrary 1% and conspiracy theories seem to be quite prominent, but unbiased, well thought-out and balanced views do not.

There's lots of talk about "them" and "the people", with loads of unsubstantiated "facts" thrown about. All with a good dose of American patriotism so cover any cracks in their arguments.

There may have been a message in there somewhere, but the multitude of activists with an axe to grind have jumped in to bask in the media attention.
(Kliper Filllets Getting noticed by twats on the internet since, Thu 3 Nov 2011, 10:56, closed)