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# Why?
(mugsy Left handed with a right handed copy of photoshop, Tue 2 Sep 2008, 3:05, archived)
# so there will be some justification for the attention he's getting.
as it is, he's just a man with an attraction to younger people who may be legally underage in many places but who are, for the most part, in puberty or beyond.

do i want to have sex with people who are 14 years old? no, but i was having sex with older men at 14 and fully aware of what i was doing. labelling intergenerational sex as a one-way power dynamic that is always exploitation is stupid, facile and allows moronic busybodies with too much time on their hands to interfere in our lives in ways that are pernicious and more immoral than the odd child-fucking.
(I helped save b3ta! postbear has metal knees, Tue 2 Sep 2008, 3:12, archived)
# "who are, for the most part, in puberty or beyond."

for the most part!
(I helped save b3ta! PointlessCamel Last one on drugs is a queer., Tue 2 Sep 2008, 3:15, archived)
# actually, i should not have said that.
the 14 year old he allegedly had sex with was years ago, and he was acquitted of all charges. the childporn conviction reported no ages regarding his 'victims'.
(I helped save b3ta! postbear has metal knees, Tue 2 Sep 2008, 3:19, archived)
# Well he has obviously done nothing wrong then...
Lets release him, in fact I want him to babysit my child.
(I helped save b3ta! PointlessCamel Last one on drugs is a queer., Tue 2 Sep 2008, 3:35, archived)
# you do realise what 'acquitted' means, right?
whether you let him babysit is your business - i only have issue with screeching to the media in a panic about a 'crime' that involves pictures (or drawings, for crying out loud) of people. has he harmed a person?
(I helped save b3ta! postbear has metal knees, Tue 2 Sep 2008, 3:43, archived)
# see the story about the bloke being done
for writing a story about killing girls aloud and dismembering their corpses?
(coobeastie Used to Be in Evil Gazebo, Tue 2 Sep 2008, 3:45, archived)
# i see stories like that far too often.
right now i'm committing a thoughtcrime. quick, pointless camel, phone a policeman/priest!
(I helped save b3ta! postbear has metal knees, Tue 2 Sep 2008, 3:48, archived)
# Why the fuck does how often you see them have anything to do with it?
You seem to be a very confused person, and defend your morally weak argument by judging me. Look i can do it too postbear! Are you a Sun reader, did your starsign tell you to condone child porn?
(I helped save b3ta! PointlessCamel Last one on drugs is a queer., Tue 2 Sep 2008, 3:56, archived)
# morally weak?
you're claiming that owning a picture ought to be a crime. please grow up.
(I helped save b3ta! postbear has metal knees, Tue 2 Sep 2008, 3:59, archived)
# i think what he means is the way the picture was put into existance.
children being tortured and forced into fuck pics.

other than this i have agreed with all your points.
(I helped save b3ta! d d, Tue 2 Sep 2008, 4:01, archived)
# i asked him/her about that twice already, with no reply.
that's one example of child porn. it could be a drawing, or a photoshop or a kid in the bath pic - we don't know, but they're all childporn in certain eyes.
(I helped save b3ta! postbear has metal knees, Tue 2 Sep 2008, 4:03, archived)
# i think a drawing or photoshop isn't so bad myself.
as long as no one is harmed i don't care what they do.
(I helped save b3ta! d d, Tue 2 Sep 2008, 4:09, archived)
# so if you found 4000 drawings/pics whatever of naked kids
on a friends computer, you woudln't think twice.
He must just like downloading stuff...
(I helped save b3ta! PointlessCamel Last one on drugs is a queer., Tue 2 Sep 2008, 4:12, archived)
# i have about 250 000 pics of people on disc.
many are nudes, some of them are children. some are of people i know, and some are of strangers. i also have about 100 000 pics of plants and landscapes. should the tabloids be scaring people that i'm about to come to their yards and fuck their trees?
(I helped save b3ta! postbear has metal knees, Tue 2 Sep 2008, 4:23, archived)
# I never said that,
I'm saying that owning '4000' pictures of child pornography is worth investigation. What the shit does 'grow up' mean anyway, really? We are not in a school playground.
(I helped save b3ta! PointlessCamel Last one on drugs is a queer., Tue 2 Sep 2008, 4:06, archived)
# grow up means just that - grow up.
you made a lame joke and i made an absurd wish in response. when asked about it by another poster, i replied, explaining my dissatisfaction with a public witch hunt. knowing exactly NOTHING about the actual ages of his victims, you've proceded to take the stance of a deeply offended person for no perceptible reason.

further, you've carefully avoided questions about the nature of the pics that he had, when that is entirely pertinent to the fact of whether or not he's any sort of sex criminal in ACT and not merely FANTASY.
(I helped save b3ta! postbear has metal knees, Tue 2 Sep 2008, 4:16, archived)
# Well thanks for clearing that up, we can all go and 'grow up'......?
Here are your pertinent facts that I have not 'carefully' avoided:
1999 Glitter arrested with 4000 pics of child pornography (with definition, as it looks like you need to have it spelt out for you.)

Again: In late 2005, Gary Glitter was arrested and charged with molesting two under-aged girls, aged 10 and 11.

Sounds to me like you are the one living in a fantasy world.

edit: more info: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Glitter
(I helped save b3ta! PointlessCamel Last one on drugs is a queer., Tue 2 Sep 2008, 4:24, archived)
# oh good grief.
arrested, charged and not prosecuted = innocent, not guilty. got it?

and a wikipedia definition has no meaning under the law of any country - the laws vary, too, from place to place and over time. what is legal where you are may be illegal here, and vice versa. to add hilarity to this, the very first sentence of the wiki article begins "Child pornography refers to material depicting children being in a state of undress..." which only supports my question - what is the nature of the pics he had? Were they just naked pics or drawings or silly-ass photoshops, or were they actually porn pics featuring underage kids?

we don't know! further, in my mind (and in the minds of many people, some of whom are posting here and some of whom are on the forefront of this legal issue), possessing pictures of illicit acts should not necessarily be a crime.

please don't try people by their wikipedia articles. it's just not... sane.
(I helped save b3ta! postbear has metal knees, Tue 2 Sep 2008, 4:34, archived)
# OH SHIT
 
I COULD BE IN SOME SERIOUS TROUBLE HERE
(I helped save b3ta! Rapitinui get in the cage and I'll give you a treat, Tue 2 Sep 2008, 5:28, archived)
# So your are essentially saying it is OK to look at child porn?!
(I helped save b3ta! PointlessCamel Last one on drugs is a queer., Tue 2 Sep 2008, 3:47, archived)
# i don't care what porn people look at.
are you saying it should be illegal to look at a drawing of a child or a nude baby pic? or only illegal if it gets you sexually excited?
(I helped save b3ta! postbear has metal knees, Tue 2 Sep 2008, 3:50, archived)
# I think the idea is that pornography with children in is illegal to own, as it funds/endorses the creation and systematic sexual abuse of children.
That seems fairly logical to me, in the same way snuff porn and such would be illegal.

Though they do seem fairly content in pushing through with this stupid new law which would essentially cover everything from those ridiculous pictures they did in Brass Eye, to lolicon type hentai.
(Jeru War and Piss, Tue 2 Sep 2008, 4:02, archived)
# i can think of about two thousand pics i've seen on b3ta that would be covered, too.
we're in a place where it's not easy to draw a line, and, unfortunately, the people eager to draw that line tend to be people i don't want making any decisions for me.
(I helped save b3ta! postbear has metal knees, Tue 2 Sep 2008, 4:06, archived)
# I fail to see the difference between manipulated and drawn images, and using your own imagination.
Other than the fact that it's a tangiable thing, but ultimately it's still the same old thought policeism.
(Jeru War and Piss, Tue 2 Sep 2008, 4:09, archived)
# exactly. crimes are things we do, not things we think about.
(I helped save b3ta! postbear has metal knees, Tue 2 Sep 2008, 4:18, archived)
# I can see what you are getting at but I'm talking more about the specifics of Glitters case...
"Glitter was arrested and charged with molesting two under-aged girls, aged 10 and 11."
(I helped save b3ta! PointlessCamel Last one on drugs is a queer., Tue 2 Sep 2008, 4:10, archived)
# prosecutors dropped the charges due to lack of evidence.
so, he had some 'porn', the nature of which is unknown to us.
(I helped save b3ta! postbear has metal knees, Tue 2 Sep 2008, 4:20, archived)
# postbear is talking about kiddy porn and pointlesscamel is talking about molestation. these are two different subjects.
(I helped save b3ta! d d, Tue 2 Sep 2008, 4:33, archived)
# i'm talking with my mouth and p.c. is using... another orifice.
(I helped save b3ta! postbear has metal knees, Tue 2 Sep 2008, 4:46, archived)
# Personal insults again...yawn.
Way to go postbear! Now go back and re-think your position on the whole awful subject.
(I helped save b3ta! PointlessCamel Last one on drugs is a queer., Tue 2 Sep 2008, 15:21, archived)
# at fourteen, I was still very much a child.
 
at sixteen I thought I was an adult.. I wasn't
(I helped save b3ta! Rapitinui get in the cage and I'll give you a treat, Tue 2 Sep 2008, 3:19, archived)
# we all mature differently.
i just get chafed when 'sex crimes' are bandied about, for two main reasons:

1. nonsense ones (regarding consensual intergenerational sex and other 'crimes') distract from real sex crimes, and

2. the wingnuts most up in arms about them tend to be puritanical freaks who'll only be happy when only monogamous sex between legally married opposite-gender religious people is allowed.
(I helped save b3ta! postbear has metal knees, Tue 2 Sep 2008, 3:23, archived)
# couldn't agree more!
 
also - those same wingnuts are the ones raping their own children, nightly
(I helped save b3ta! Rapitinui get in the cage and I'll give you a treat, Tue 2 Sep 2008, 3:24, archived)
# They're the kind of middle class white people who get up in arms at potentially racist remarks.
OH MY, YOU CAN'T SAY THAT, SOMEONE MIGHT BE OFFENDED.

Well, how about this. WE LET THE PEOPLE THAT MIGHT BE OFFENDED TELL US IF IT'S OFFENSIVE SINCE YOU HAVE NO FUCKING VIEWPOINT, YOU SPANNER.
(I helped save b3ta! MrPineapple .co.uk - TSHIRTS FOR SALE. I GIVE YOU GOOD PRICE., Tue 2 Sep 2008, 3:25, archived)
# also, glitter was given to the catholics at age 10.
oh, i'd comment but it's just too easy.
(I helped save b3ta! postbear has metal knees, Tue 2 Sep 2008, 3:26, archived)
# I couldn't disagree more.
"In 1999, Glitter was convicted of downloading four thousand images of child pornography."

wingnuts..

you deluded people.
(I helped save b3ta! PointlessCamel Last one on drugs is a queer., Tue 2 Sep 2008, 3:38, archived)
# i'd love to know who the victims of this crime are.
what ages were the people in the images? were they photographs or drawings? were they pics of naked kids that i could easily find on flickr or pbase or yahoo galleries or photobucket or imageshack, etc?

we don't know the facts at all, and that makes your comment absurd. you're probably afraid of ghosts, too.
(I helped save b3ta! postbear has metal knees, Tue 2 Sep 2008, 3:47, archived)
# Oh and so now you are generalising about me,
AND passing off child porn as a 'mild case' or so it seems.

Having 4000 pictures of naked kids on your laptop is not right, whatever the fucking media they are made with.
(I helped save b3ta! PointlessCamel Last one on drugs is a queer., Tue 2 Sep 2008, 3:51, archived)
# you don't know what those pics featured any more than i do.
again: were they drawings? pics of naked kids put up on the internet by moms and dads who think they're cute? actual splayed baby-genitals being licked by adults? we don't know, but they're all illegal in certain places.

by your account it's not right. others disagree, and still others are more worried about the police and government having the right to poke into your computer or desk drawer to see if what gets you off is something that others frown upon.
(I helped save b3ta! postbear has metal knees, Tue 2 Sep 2008, 3:55, archived)
# you know simulated child porno images are actually illegal in the us and a few other countries.
maybe yours?
(I helped save b3ta! d d, Tue 2 Sep 2008, 4:58, archived)
# yes, i do know that. it bothers me, too.
what constitutes porn? it's so bloody subjective that people have been arrested for having snapshots of their own kids in the bath. further, it sparks a chilling effect, and can be used to harass artist and people on the sexual fringe who are not victimising children.
(I helped save b3ta! postbear has metal knees, Tue 2 Sep 2008, 5:05, archived)
# well, all the people I know who were repeatedly raped as children, that was by family members.
 
MANY OF THEM ARE RELIGIOUS, GODDAMNIT
(I helped save b3ta! Rapitinui get in the cage and I'll give you a treat, Tue 2 Sep 2008, 5:24, archived)
# now I feel like anybody under twenty-five is too young for me.
 
: (
(I helped save b3ta! Rapitinui get in the cage and I'll give you a treat, Tue 2 Sep 2008, 3:23, archived)
# Oh rats :(
(I helped save b3ta! MrPineapple .co.uk - TSHIRTS FOR SALE. I GIVE YOU GOOD PRICE., Tue 2 Sep 2008, 3:24, archived)
# to every rule, an exception.
(I helped save b3ta! Rapitinui get in the cage and I'll give you a treat, Tue 2 Sep 2008, 3:25, archived)
# I'll just draw wrinkles on in biro and pretend.
(I helped save b3ta! MrPineapple .co.uk - TSHIRTS FOR SALE. I GIVE YOU GOOD PRICE., Tue 2 Sep 2008, 3:26, archived)
# Wise advice.
(I helped save b3ta! Tahkcalb ω∞ for sigs, Tue 2 Sep 2008, 3:28, archived)
# hell, most of my graduate students are in their early twenties.
 
and some of them are taaaassssty
(I helped save b3ta! Rapitinui get in the cage and I'll give you a treat, Tue 2 Sep 2008, 3:29, archived)
# eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!
i was thinking about taking a uni course this winter, and there were some campus-goers who caught my eye. it was disturbing.
(I helped save b3ta! postbear has metal knees, Tue 2 Sep 2008, 3:31, archived)
# last year around this time i was asked out on a date by a guy.
he was coy about his age - turned out to be 29. that's not too bad, but i felt like a cradle-robber.
(I helped save b3ta! postbear has metal knees, Tue 2 Sep 2008, 3:28, archived)
# You're one of the most cynical and eloquent people I know.
And I fucking love that in people.

Sometimes, I get a bit of a chub.
(I helped save b3ta! MrPineapple .co.uk - TSHIRTS FOR SALE. I GIVE YOU GOOD PRICE., Tue 2 Sep 2008, 3:24, archived)
# heh, those are kind words.
creepy ones, but kind.
(I helped save b3ta! postbear has metal knees, Tue 2 Sep 2008, 3:27, archived)
# The chub bit may have been a lie, but I love the way discussions in the gayshift are composed.
POSTBEAR 4 PRESIDUNT.
(I helped save b3ta! MrPineapple .co.uk - TSHIRTS FOR SALE. I GIVE YOU GOOD PRICE., Tue 2 Sep 2008, 3:31, archived)
# ick, that's a nasty wish.
i'd hate it and do a terrible job. i'd like to be pope, though. can you arrange that?
(I helped save b3ta! postbear has metal knees, Tue 2 Sep 2008, 3:32, archived)
# I'll see what I can do.
If morons claim they can see a code in the Bible, I'm sure I can convince them that it says somewhere that you should be pope. They're probably gullible and deluded enough to just believe it.
(I helped save b3ta! MrPineapple .co.uk - TSHIRTS FOR SALE. I GIVE YOU GOOD PRICE., Tue 2 Sep 2008, 3:35, archived)
# "they" and "them".
so vague Mr Pineapple, so very vague.
(I helped save b3ta! PointlessCamel Last one on drugs is a queer., Tue 2 Sep 2008, 3:41, archived)
# The morons.
That pretty much means anyone but me.
(I helped save b3ta! MrPineapple .co.uk - TSHIRTS FOR SALE. I GIVE YOU GOOD PRICE., Tue 2 Sep 2008, 3:44, archived)
# humans are a stupid species.
(I helped save b3ta! postbear has metal knees, Tue 2 Sep 2008, 3:51, archived)