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Richard Dawkins is a tit.

England is officially a Christian country last time I looked.

Can you imagine what the Muslims would say if it was specifically aimed at them?

But seeing as he's picking on the Christians no one cares.

Wanker.

(

Quijibo Esq. BSc. May contain traces of nuts, Tue 21 Oct 2008, 15:49, archived)

How is he picking on Christians?

(_Felix 's school of dance and occult sciences, Tue 21 Oct 2008, 15:50, archived)

Christian country.

Try putting that on a bus in Iraq.

(

Quijibo Esq. BSc. May contain traces of nuts, Tue 21 Oct 2008, 15:51, archived)

I'm not sure Iraq has an atheist humanist association

and if they do I doubt it has ten grand to spend on adverts.
... I guess, to be fair, it's a sort of reply to (I presume) adverts from Christians. And they are a softer target than muslims, who get all burny.

(_Felix 's school of dance and occult sciences, Tue 21 Oct 2008, 15:54, archived)

well to be fair, all religions revolve around a "God" of some sort.

this is offensive to anyone who takes offense to it, i like that idea.

(

Just Flange, Tue 21 Oct 2008, 15:51, archived)

He's

attacking all religions, Muslims and Jews have the same God as Christians.

(

The Scrunt Wants a Dozen Pints, Tue 21 Oct 2008, 15:51, archived)

See replies to others.

(

Quijibo Esq. BSc. May contain traces of nuts, Tue 21 Oct 2008, 15:52, archived)

I see nothing but faulty logic in your argument

England being 'officially Christian' matters little - if you really cared about this fact surely you'd be in favour of a law banning religious subversion of any sort?

As for 'can you imagine what the Muslims would say', just because society seems to want to pander in a ridiculous and unfair way to one faith doesn't mean it should make that mistake elsewhere. Also, I find nothing here linking these adverts specifically to Christianity, that's your assumption and your bigotry.

(Guineapiggy Fuzzeh!, Tue 21 Oct 2008, 15:53, archived)

"that's your assumption and your bigotry."

England is a Christian country. Fact.

That is why I am suggesting it is aimed more at Christians than any other race.

"surely you'd be in favour of a law banning religious subversion of any sort?"

No, people can have their own opinions on things, I'd just quite like them to keep them to themselves.

Bigotry it is not.

" just because society seems to want to pander in a ridiculous and unfair way to one faith doesn't mean it should make that mistake elsewhere"

Both sides are at fault if you ask me. Stop pandering too them and they should shut up.

(

Quijibo Esq. BSc. May contain traces of nuts, Tue 21 Oct 2008, 15:56, archived)

And you stomp all over your own arugment again

1 - All signs of faith are rejections of other faiths. Are you suggesting we ban all religious symbols of any description and make churches move underground?

2 - The largest faith in England claims to take in 22% of the population. The fact you lump a group of religions together under 'Christian' means nothing because I could just as easily describe it as 'Abrahamic' and thus include Islam and Judaism.

3 - If you want them to stop pandering then why did you argue against this in the first place?

(Guineapiggy Fuzzeh!, Tue 21 Oct 2008, 16:02, archived)

1. As I said, people can have their views, but I'd rather they keep it to themselves. If it means removing crosses from the front of churches and placing them inside as a clear line of what is "God bothering" and what isn't, then so be it.

2. You can describe it how you like. It is what England IS that is another matter. Legally, it's a Christian country. Most of the laws are based around (original) Christian views. Whether that is a good or bad thing I don't care.

3. Because this twat isn't shutting the fuck up either.
Atheism is an opioning I don't wish to be talked at about either.

(

Quijibo Esq. BSc. May contain traces of nuts, Tue 21 Oct 2008, 16:08, archived)

1 - You would really do that? Wow, you really must live a miserable, hateful existence to want to strip society of all overt differences.

2 - 'Legally it's a Christian country'? Prove it. Find me the laws. Go on.

3 - I think the last couple of lines say all that needs to be said about you.

(Guineapiggy Fuzzeh!, Tue 21 Oct 2008, 16:10, archived)

I think we could all get along nicely

if there was no need to attack one anothers beliefs because some people can't keep it to themselves.

That is what I think.

That is all from me.

(

Quijibo Esq. BSc. May contain traces of nuts, Tue 21 Oct 2008, 16:15, archived)

So you're going to argue and tell people to shut the fuck up

but not back it up and then claim you want everyone to get along?

Fuck off back to the Daily Mail.

(Guineapiggy Fuzzeh!, Tue 21 Oct 2008, 16:17, archived)

I'd like to think this was a discussion. Apparently not.

What do you want me to prove then?

(

Quijibo Esq. BSc. May contain traces of nuts, Tue 21 Oct 2008, 16:20, archived)

The thing myself and Panasonic have asked you to prove at least twice

that 'England is officially/legally a Christian country'

(Guineapiggy Fuzzeh!, Tue 21 Oct 2008, 16:22, archived)

Have a look at the flag of England.

Tell me what you see.

Fine, England doesn't have as high a percentage of Christians (or if you really prefer - C of E) as it used to. It does, however, according to the latest census, still have a very high amount that still affiliate themselves with it.

www.statistics.gov.uk/census2001/profiles/commentaries/ethnicity.asp

That shows you current statistics, which I'm sure you would agree, is still quite high.

There is little doubt, though if you really want, it is provable, that England's laws are based around (original) Christian beliefs.

(

Quijibo Esq. BSc. May contain traces of nuts, Tue 21 Oct 2008, 16:30, archived)

High(ish) CoE membership does NOT make for an officially or legally Christian country. Try again.

(Guineapiggy Fuzzeh!, Tue 21 Oct 2008, 16:31, archived)

So now you're pulling me up on terminology,

instead of actually getting what I was saying?

In at least my eyes, ~71% of the population makes that country a Christian country.
That and the monarch being Christian, and she is (theoretically at least) the law setter (though she does so through her parliament).

(

Quijibo Esq. BSc. May contain traces of nuts, Tue 21 Oct 2008, 16:35, archived)

When you say 'officially' or 'legally' I do expect you to stand by it, yes

because y'see, the world doesn't opperate via your eyes. Also, the queen is not the 'law setter' and has not been since the deposition of Charles I. Also, once again, you are trying to modify your stance. And again, we come to the argument that the term 'Christian' is basically meaningless as one sect of 'Christians' does not follow the ideals of the other. As I said, the largest religion accounts for at best 22% of the nation.

(Guineapiggy Fuzzeh!, Tue 21 Oct 2008, 16:37, archived)

Fine.

We'll agree to disagree.

Hug? :P

(

Quijibo Esq. BSc. May contain traces of nuts, Tue 21 Oct 2008, 16:41, archived)

I already disagree

so I'll pass on formality, thanks

(Guineapiggy Fuzzeh!, Tue 21 Oct 2008, 16:43, archived)

Grumpy.

*Hugs anyway*

Opinions! Who'd have 'em.

I don't know why I get like that at times. I'm just sick of both sides having to shove opposing opinions in their faces.

(

Quijibo Esq. BSc. May contain traces of nuts, Tue 21 Oct 2008, 16:47, archived)

the flag of England?

Just how ill educated are you? I see the red cross. This was the standard brought over from the arms of Geoffrey of Aquitaine when he came to England to be monarch. It is not a religios symbol despite the fact that it later appeared on the arms of England's catholic murderers when they went to the middle east on their 'crusades' ( which was actually a land grab for the second sons of minor nobles who were having a hard time being anything under the laws of succession of the day. A fact many choose to overlook ).

(

Pasanonic 's been known to cause insanity in laboratory mice, Tue 21 Oct 2008, 16:40, archived)

I stand corrected.

I wasn't aware of that.

(

Quijibo Esq. BSc. May contain traces of nuts, Tue 21 Oct 2008, 16:43, archived)

other way round

I think people realised it was a generally a really shit idea to go around killing people long before Jesus did or didn't roam the earth. Therefore i would suggest that what you call Christian Beliefs were based around common laws that have been around since we evolved into sentients beings (some of us are still undergoing the change).

(Cock Piss Partridge Couldn't give a shit who Virgilio Anderson is., Tue 21 Oct 2008, 16:52, archived)

I'm not necessarily talking about killing people.

That's obviously the first thing you think of though when you think of laws.

Take for example:
It was illegal to be Gay until fairly recently.
It was illegal to have sex outside of marriage.
It is illegal to have multiple wives.

Mainly, they seem revolve around sex, which is interesting.

There's many that were likely to not have been around prior to Jesus' possible existence.

(

Quijibo Esq. BSc. May contain traces of nuts, Tue 21 Oct 2008, 16:56, archived)

England is not a christian nation.

( what does that mean anyway?) And seeing as you state it as fact I'll be awaiting the bit where you show me the law which states that as fact.

(

Pasanonic 's been known to cause insanity in laboratory mice, Tue 21 Oct 2008, 16:05, archived)

Ashley

we have jewish law and some Islamic. ok confined to civil courts but it exists -you can get divorced under them for example

There is no christian equivalent.

/psychology tutorial mode off

(

boff FL OZ, Tue 21 Oct 2008, 16:15, archived)

this means nothing to me.

Our law is not canonical even if it has ideas which overlap with religious group law. having a sensible law that allows for people to know right or wrong so that they make people behave in a moral manner and has nothing whatsoever to do with religion.

(

Pasanonic 's been known to cause insanity in laboratory mice, Tue 21 Oct 2008, 16:29, archived)

Well, the C of E does have certain special, rather boring powers.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_of_England_Assembly_(Powers)_Act_1919
And it is called the Church of England.

(_Felix 's school of dance and occult sciences, Tue 21 Oct 2008, 16:47, archived)

England is

pretty much a secular country. Although the official religion of the monarch ( and would be expected to be followed by the monarchs people ) is protestant church of England ( one of many 'christian' faiths ) many clergy including the Archbishop of York agree that the UK is now secular.

And even if it were a 'christian' nation ( a notion I find abhorrent and dangerous in a multi-cultural society ) why is Dawkins picking on christians? He's an intelligent and insightful man who is merely picking on superstitious idiots who waste their lives chasing god. That's just about every religious group, last time I checked they all believed in god bar a few off on a tangent.
We have a separation of church and state in this country and have had for some time. Therefore there is no official religion in the terms you would like there to be.

I put it to you that you don't know what you are fucking talking about.

(

Pasanonic 's been known to cause insanity in laboratory mice, Tue 21 Oct 2008, 16:04, archived)

I'm suggesting that he should stop telling people what to think

and so should the religions.

But un-aided free choice is a little scary to a lot of people it would seem.

(

Quijibo Esq. BSc. May contain traces of nuts, Tue 21 Oct 2008, 16:11, archived)

How exactly is telling people what you think stripping them of free will?

If you're a fully grown adult weak-minded enough to let someone tell you exactly what right and wrong are, exactly how to live your life and exactly how and why we exist and never back up an ounce of it you deserve everything you get.

(Guineapiggy Fuzzeh!, Tue 21 Oct 2008, 16:16, archived)

Sadly, there are far too many people who are that weak-minded.

(

Quijibo Esq. BSc. May contain traces of nuts, Tue 21 Oct 2008, 16:19, archived)

That's their deal, not mine

I could walk past a 500 foot tall crucifix emblazoned with neon passages from the bible and celebrity promotion and not flinch.

(Guineapiggy Fuzzeh!, Tue 21 Oct 2008, 16:21, archived)

but you are changing tack.

You started by arguing that the UK or England is a christian nation and that anyone who quite rightly tells people to worry less about the existence of god and get on with their lives is attacking christians. Christianity is not even a religion per se. It's a doctrine and a set of tenets under which many religious groups operate their cult of worship. You don't have to be religious to live your life by a set of christian values as they merely sow a moral way of living.

The Uk operates a frreedom of religion policy which means that we are free to choose any faith we like, and more importantly to choose no faith. this is what makes us a secular nation.

our law is set by the state and is not canonical. Your argument is flawed.

And i'll end by saying simply this. If people are allowed to preach religious nonsense then other people have every right to argue against it without the fear of persecution from religious groups.

(

Pasanonic 's been known to cause insanity in laboratory mice, Tue 21 Oct 2008, 16:26, archived)

fuck off deluded idiot. your invisible wizard and his zombie son cannot help you

(

monstrinho do biscoito teeeshurts = www.nogunarmy.com, Tue 21 Oct 2008, 16:09, archived)

I'm agnostic as it happens.

I get pissed of watching both sides of the argument.

(

Quijibo Esq. BSc. May contain traces of nuts, Tue 21 Oct 2008, 16:13, archived)

personally i'm delighted that this ad has been made

tho i'd prefer....

'why not be nice to other people for the sake of it? rather than because the bogey man will punish you forever after you die if you don't'

bit long, but then it is on a bendy bus

(

monstrinho do biscoito teeeshurts = www.nogunarmy.com, Tue 21 Oct 2008, 16:19, archived)

Dawkins thinks the main way people acquire religion

is by means of the parents deciding what religion their children are. An advert about not doing that might be a lot more effective than this one. Adverts have little enough effect on selling products (beyond "product awareness") - which is just as well - so I doubt they can combat powerful memes directly.

(_Felix 's school of dance and occult sciences, Tue 21 Oct 2008, 16:35, archived)

Silly Quijibo. Prof. Dawkins is not tit

Dawkins ashley debunks all religion as a steaming pile of superstition.

He focuses on the 'Abrahamic' religions, Judaism Christianity & Islam, but only as these are best-known amongst his book-buying public.

He does compare & contrast these religions with Scientology and the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster, and points out that they are all as daft as each other.

(Flappers, Tue 21 Oct 2008, 16:30, archived)