And yet
because almost 52 percent of the people voted to leave - corresponding to 37% of the electorate, and 27% of the population - despite not having the information, we're still supposed to accept the result as inviolable.
It's insane.
Leave remainers to one side for a moment: I don't understand why more Brexiteers aren't worried about this... unless winning was simply more important than what was won.
(
Enzyme is powered by sunlight, Wed 6 Dec 2017, 13:09,
Share,
Reply)
".. unless winning was simply more important than what was won."
(
DinivanX Has stinging piss after drinking Pact Coffee, Wed 6 Dec 2017, 13:33,
Share,
Reply)
Numbers!
Leave got 51.9% of a massive 72.2% turnout
In 2008 Obama got 52.9% out of a 58.2% turnout.
If you're questioning the democratic result of the poll then you're like the nutters in the states that spent years questioning Obama's right to govern.
And like I said before if you didn't vote then you didn't care.
[edit]
You ask why we are not more worried?
Well the morning after I was. I got what I wanted and was prepared to pay the cost of it. But I was expecting in part the financial apocalypse that was promised. Promised as soon as the vote happened not when we eventually leave.
That didn't happen. There's been some impact I grant you but nothing on the scale that was promised day after bloody day during the campaign. Almost 100% of the media went along with this line so there was escaping it.
(
Cerebus Sticky! Sticky! Stick! Stick!, Wed 6 Dec 2017, 13:42,
Share,
Reply)
Oh I understood.
I voted because I knew understood I disliked the eu and wanted no part in being part of a future USE. I voted because I didn't like what they were doing in Greece.
I voted because I like my politicians within egg throwing distance.
I voted because eu expansionism has destabilised eastern Europe.
I voted because the eu put's punitive tariffs on poorer nations exports to the eu to help relatively wealthy european firms exploit their resources.
I voted for many reasons.
When you voted for remain, what was your understanding of what you were voting for? Come on Benny here is your platform.
Make the case for re-joining the eu here and now.
Sell it to us.
BRB Just going to make a coffee that was processed in the eu despite the beans being grown in Africa and the farms paid a pittance for it compared to the final product.
(
Cerebus Sticky! Sticky! Stick! Stick!, Wed 6 Dec 2017, 14:25,
Share,
Reply)
1. Economic prosperity, specifically not sacrificing economic growth in the short to medium term for a very unlikely possible gain in the long-term
2. A better deal than the WTO default with the worlds biggest free trade zone
3. Protection for our borders (yep, that's a thing)
4. Having input into military policy and general policy for Europe
5. The ability to work in 20+ odd countries without hassle
6. Preferential travel within Europe
7. International Relevance
8. Farming subsidies
9. No problems for expats legally residing in Europe.
10. No problems with Northern Ireland (well past the usual ones)
11. The rich assholes with the vested interest in getting out of europe, before they crack down on tax havens, would be fucked (Farage, Duncan-Smith, Lawson the usual assholes).
12. It wouldn't matter so much that our cabinet (and shadow cabinet) are populated with the most dangerous incompetents since the 3 day week.
Your politicians were always within stones throw, it's people with your attitude that elected Farage, instead of someone that had their best interests at heart and would represent them with gravitas, within the EU parliament. Also if you throw a stone within the EU, which the UK is currently part of, you hit a bit of the EU.
Europe is pretty small and there is currently free movement for its citizens, so you could just go and talk to other politicians in other countries but I understand that's way beyond your tiny little mindset.
(
DinivanX Has stinging piss after drinking Pact Coffee, Wed 6 Dec 2017, 15:11,
Share,
Reply)
Hey I can see you had your reasons and unlike Benny are able to articulate them
I'ld love to debate them but got jobs on.
But Farming subsidies seriously?
Yes I could fly to wherever the EU has it's head office at the moment going back and forth from Brussels to Strasbourg at the cost of €103 million.
Then find out my MEP doesn't hold surgeries so fly back, write a letter.
Wait to see if one of my actually 7 MEPS that claim to represent me will give me the honour of listening to me.
Fly back to wherever the EU is currently squatting. Have some twat in a suit nod politely whilst I talk.
And then fly back home having developed a carbon footprint the equivalent of 5 double decker buses and achieved nothing.
OR
I can walk 15 minutes and speak with my MP at his surgery (Except on Wednesday afternoons) with knowledge he'll be in trouble if some nutjob starts a local campaign.
(
Cerebus Sticky! Sticky! Stick! Stick!, Wed 6 Dec 2017, 15:43,
Share,
Reply)
To be honest I just kind of lobbed in farming subsidies as there appear to be a few farmers who are suddenly realising their overproduction is no longer going to be rewarded :)
You're lucky to have an MP who actually does their surgeries, it's hit and miss depending on the MP.
(
DinivanX Has stinging piss after drinking Pact Coffee, Wed 6 Dec 2017, 15:56,
Share,
Reply)
Never had a need so great I parly with a tory.
But if I did then its good to know I can.
Plus we have a healthy collection of grass roots activists that seem to be on top of things.
(
Cerebus Sticky! Sticky! Stick! Stick!, Wed 6 Dec 2017, 19:59,
Share,
Reply)
oh god. I agree with dvan
(
The Ann Coulter Fan Club Babylon is burning at, Wed 6 Dec 2017, 19:58,
Share,
Reply)
I'm sure I'll say something retarded in a moment
(
DinivanX Has stinging piss after drinking Pact Coffee, Wed 6 Dec 2017, 20:52,
Share,
Reply)
You think you know better than the world's Nobel prize winners, something tells me you won't be swayed
(, Wed 6 Dec 2017, 15:40, Share, Reply)
pffft!
www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8mduTEvnU0
(
artifus is doing it all wrong, Wed 6 Dec 2017, 16:33,
Share,
Reply)
Erm
It's been proven the Russian were dicking about on Twitter and Facebook like nobody's business. Given that fact, how can the outcome of the referendum be considered valid?
(, Wed 6 Dec 2017, 14:18, Share, Reply)
I must send him a thank you note for helping me realise my political aims!
Don't know how much has been proven in this case but I expect the famous Troll Factory is real.
Countries have fucked around in other nations elections since there's been elections.
Obama also tried to influence the outcome by saying "we'll be back of the queue."
The eu also tried by funding pro eu think tanks to scare voters into voting remain.
If you annuled every vote that some outside nation tried to steer it than you'll never have one.
Given that the younger voted remain and the older voted leave.
How much influence a meme on the twatter would have on voting choices?
You could also argue that what Putin would like is the divided nation we have now with people putting down democracy. He'll love that he would.
(
Cerebus Sticky! Sticky! Stick! Stick!, Wed 6 Dec 2017, 14:53,
Share,
Reply)
"You could also argue that what Putin would like is the divided nation we have now with people putting down democracy"
No shit Sherlock, you've fallen straight into the very obvious "divide and conquer" hole and as with the other brexitholes you keep digging as stubbornly keeping face is more important to you than doing what's best for the country.
(
DinivanX Has stinging piss after drinking Pact Coffee, Wed 6 Dec 2017, 15:22,
Share,
Reply)
Talk to be about being stubborn and digging in.
You who are refusing to accept the result of a referendum and numerous votes in parliament and the manifestos of the 2 parties that got 82.4% at the last election. Neither of them supporting going back on brexit.
(
Cerebus Sticky! Sticky! Stick! Stick!, Wed 6 Dec 2017, 16:03,
Share,
Reply)
I completely accept that there was an opinion poll and that the two main parties have been falling over themselves to try and gain what they perceive as popular ground as a result, regardless of the non-existent details attached to said opinion poll. There's fuck all in our constitution that says we have to do something stupid because there was an opinion poll.
That both sides have shown themselves as incapable of putting country before perceived votes is the reason I will never vote for either of them again.
(
DinivanX Has stinging piss after drinking Pact Coffee, Wed 6 Dec 2017, 16:17,
Share,
Reply)
You missed the whole punishment budget thing then?
We were told all this would happen immediately after a vote to leave.
Not 2 plus years later when the leaving process has finished.
Rather than going over this again here's a link.
fullfact.org/economy/brexit-and-economic-apocalypse/
(
Cerebus Sticky! Sticky! Stick! Stick!, Wed 6 Dec 2017, 15:09,
Share,
Reply)
That's from the beginning of the year. Since them our growth figures have dropped whilst those in the rest of the EU have risen:
https://www.ft.com/content/499115b6-ad90-11e7-beba-5521c713abf4
Now that's the IMF saying that a couple of months back and I'm sure they've got political interests here too, however here are a couple of choice and apposite quotes:
"“We forecast in the pre-referendum period, as did others, there would be long run negative effects on the British economy,” he said. “I think we’re starting to see those.”" - Prediction, take with the usual pinch of salt,
"Growth in most of the other advanced economies, with the notable exception of the UK, picked up in the first half of 2017 from its pace in the second half of 2016" - This is a fact. Our growth has been hit, unlike the other primary EU members
(
DinivanX Has stinging piss after drinking Pact Coffee, Wed 6 Dec 2017, 16:26,
Share,
Reply)
differences when electing a politician
someone has to govern
there are many options
they are held to greater account by other politicians, branches of government, their party
but most importantly, the decision can be reversed 4 years later
Compare with almost evenly split binary vote on what could be the biggest upheaval in Western Europe in decades; and from such a simple 'yes/no' question so much has been extrapolated. "We definitely won't leave the single market." "Leave means leave everything." The Irish border. EU citizen rights. Freedom of movement. etc etc etc. At least politicians have manifestos they can be judged against.
(, Wed 6 Dec 2017, 15:53, Share, Reply)