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I'm up for any deal to need approval by parliament but not a second referendum.
Complex enough the first time when it was a simple in / out question.

But a 3 way question on what will be a highly technical document?
Can't see that working.

Also if the eu knows any solution will have to pass another popular poll they have no incentive to give us a good deal and in fact will be motivated to give us a bad one that they know will be voted against.

We'll be up to our necks in negative reports by eu funded experts. Note the lack of quotes on experts.

Anyway I look forward to remainers that have been arguing "it was just a poll", "people can't be trusted to vote on this" etc to suddenly fancy a good poll.

Also 136,789 voted for a poll? That's nothing as a percentage of the populous. But worth a debate in parliament sure enough though.
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Cerebus Sticky! Sticky! Stick! Stick!, Wed 13 Dec 2017, 9:23, Reply)

I'm looking forward to your arguments against the Good Friday Agreement
MOAR BOMBS
(benito vaselini no not that one, Wed 13 Dec 2017, 9:32, Reply)

I know this is your latest line of attack on the issue but you fail to understand it's bollocks
Why don't you explain how this will break the GFA?
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Cerebus Sticky! Sticky! Stick! Stick!, Wed 13 Dec 2017, 10:49, Reply)

I know this is your latest line of attack on the issue but you fail to understand brexit is bollocks
I like the way discussion these days can just be repeated back to the person who said it and just by altering usually a single word can become an argument diametrically opposed to their original meaning.

It's much easier than having to actually have a discussion based on facts n stuff.
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My Name was saying these words inside your head on, Wed 13 Dec 2017, 11:28, Reply)

Yeah, pretty much politics on here now.
I find this...and mostly in the form of "You can't seriously be saying..."
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transparenttown Dead to worse..., Wed 13 Dec 2017, 11:47, Reply)

I tried to disuss this with benny yesterday and he declined to follow up comment.
b3ta.com/links/1470851

Which is why I didn't go into all again but invited him to expand on his position.

It's the same old crap here. Benny trolls up then skarpers, then Dinny jumps in at a tangent picking up on one part of the discussion and the whole boring thing starts again.
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Cerebus Sticky! Sticky! Stick! Stick!, Wed 13 Dec 2017, 11:54, Reply)

"they have no incentive to give us a good deal and in fact will be motivated to give us a bad one"
the EU's survival depends on them giving us a worse deal than current members, and those third parties who have negotiated access arrangements.

Edit: and before you mention net contributions, the politics of this outweighs the balance sheet
(theswollenbeef where there's a will there's a wank, Wed 13 Dec 2017, 11:10, Reply)

Also this 3 way poll is a beautiful way to split the Leave vote
assuming the Remain vote holds of course

(1) To revoke Article 50, thereby keeping Britain in the EU
(The Remain vote)

(2) To reject the UK-EU deal and leave the EU
(The die-hard UKIP and Lab leave vote)

(3) To accept the UK-EU deal and leave the EU
(The Tory Leave vote - potentially some Remainers depending on the "deal")
(theswollenbeef where there's a will there's a wank, Wed 13 Dec 2017, 11:38, Reply)

Thank you for highlighting why the proposed 3 way question is not fit for purpose.
Which is why the public were asked this question.

Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?

Remain a member of the European Union []

Leave the European Union[]

The public gave their answer and now it's up to elected officials to make it work.
If they feel they cannot make it work then they need to stand down and make way for ones that can.
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Cerebus Sticky! Sticky! Stick! Stick!, Wed 13 Dec 2017, 12:10, Reply)

I'd be genuinely interested to see any evidence of Remain switching to Leave
not just: "I want them to get the fuck on with it" but a decent poll into the erosion of Remain on the basis of persuasion to the arguments of Leave -
representing a change of mind - if there is such a poll.
(theswollenbeef where there's a will there's a wank, Wed 13 Dec 2017, 12:31, Reply)

Which box do I tick for "build a big fucking wall around just England and then refuse to talk to anyone outside of it" pls

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drimble he'd been white, he'd been black, Wed 13 Dec 2017, 12:42, Reply)

That's such utter bollocks, though.
Some things can't be made to work - at least, not in the way that the people clamouring for them want.

Simply insisting that someone else can do the impossible is... well, a touch dogmatic.
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Enzyme is powered by sunlight, Wed 13 Dec 2017, 13:55, Reply)

Then the cunts shouldn't have stood for election promising that they can.

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Cerebus Sticky! Sticky! Stick! Stick!, Wed 13 Dec 2017, 14:12, Reply)

If you have an electorate comprised predominantly of credulous morons,
then the only way to win an election is to promise the impossible, and claim you will have done it by yesterday.
(eViLegion Chief Commissioner of the Scottish Lunacy Board, Wed 13 Dec 2017, 17:27, Reply)

Ah so you're pro-democracy when your side won by a tiny margin but not when it might reverse or undermine your damaging victory? *writes notes*
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DinivanX Has stinging piss after drinking Pact Coffee, Wed 13 Dec 2017, 11:45, Reply)

I know you're trolling but lets play.
How am I not pro-democracy?
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Cerebus Sticky! Sticky! Stick! Stick!, Wed 13 Dec 2017, 11:59, Reply)

Sure, I'm trolling
however there is a lot of "Accept the democratic decision that was made by the referendum!" and the same side utterly shutting down any discussion on further referendums.

We know that the confirmed eurosceptics would never stop campaigning regardless of the referendum result but they expect the other side to simply swallow the result, which just isn't ever going to happen.

The nice thing about a democracy is the ability to reverse a bad vote in the next election - The Brexit vote was not this at all, it was the equivalent of "here's the only vote you'll ever get in your life and then the government is fixed and static forever more - Fuck you". Ironically though, the margin from Brexit would have resulted in a hung parliament and sensible compromises would have had to have been made.
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DinivanX Has stinging piss after drinking Pact Coffee, Wed 13 Dec 2017, 12:15, Reply)

We had that, the Lib Dems made the second referendum a manifesto pledge and put it to the people.
Didn't get them many votes.

I'm sure we'll have another election before all this is over so the people will once again have a choice on electing representatives that are offering another referendum.
Or one that is going to accept the result of the poll parliament overwhelmingly voted to give to the people and get on with things.

In the meantime I expect them to get on with the job they were tasked with.

BTW you know how in the past when a poll hasn't gone the eu's way (Ireland, Greece etc) they've asked them to vote again? Notice the complete lack of eu demanding a second vote here? Maybe they don't want us in their club spoiling the march towards the great US of E with vetos. Just a thought.
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Cerebus Sticky! Sticky! Stick! Stick!, Wed 13 Dec 2017, 12:28, Reply)

Oh come, come now.
In the election we had a load of people protesting the Conservative government and going across to Labour to try and damage them - Which is exactly what happened.

The fact the Lib Dems made that stand is admirable, but without them being one of Lab/Con, they were never going to win - The fact however that they won 50% (!) more seats than in 2015 does show that there was a big swing towards them with that policy and maintaining their integrity (remember both Labour and Cons were pro-europe until the referendum, then they just flipped the fucking hypocrites). That was with an utterly awful slightly bonkers fundamentalist christian in charge.

The EU has continually said that we can change our minds and that they'd like us to do so, however I agree that that goodwill has eroded due to us sending uttter fuckwits like Johnson and Davis to represent/humiliate us as a nation.
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DinivanX Has stinging piss after drinking Pact Coffee, Wed 13 Dec 2017, 12:40, Reply)

Now, you come now....
Are you really holding the lib dems as an example of a massive swing?

www.bbc.co.uk/news/election/2017/results

Gained only 4 more seats to make a massive 12 and received a lower share of the vote than their 2015 wipe out where they lost 49 seats.
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Cerebus Sticky! Sticky! Stick! Stick!, Wed 13 Dec 2017, 13:08, Reply)

That's a 50% swing. Given how little goodwill they had after the coalition that's significant.

You're also not actually claiming that a general election was a second referendum because that's a little bit silly.
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DinivanX Has stinging piss after drinking Pact Coffee, Wed 13 Dec 2017, 13:13, Reply)

That there's some class A turd polishing.

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Cerebus Sticky! Sticky! Stick! Stick!, Wed 13 Dec 2017, 13:15, Reply)

'the job they were tasked with.' ie making everyone in the UK demonstrably poorer.
Yes get on with it lads, the people have spoken
(benito vaselini no not that one, Wed 13 Dec 2017, 12:46, Reply)

Yeah but the lizard illuminati, United states of Europe and faceless eurocrats man!

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DinivanX Has stinging piss after drinking Pact Coffee, Wed 13 Dec 2017, 12:50, Reply)

Cute, so you deny the end goal for the eu project is closer and closer political union leading up to a United States of Europe?
You're either blind or support the idea but attempt to deny that from the people because you know they wont go for it.
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Cerebus Sticky! Sticky! Stick! Stick!, Wed 13 Dec 2017, 13:11, Reply)

Tinfoil hat man repeats completely unfounded conspiracy bollocks.
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DinivanX Has stinging piss after drinking Pact Coffee, Wed 13 Dec 2017, 13:14, Reply)

What part of ever closer union do you fail to understand?
researchbriefings.parliament.uk/ResearchBriefing/Summary/CBP-7230

And in recent years

2005 Guy Verhofstadt MEP writes the book Verenigde Staten van Europa "United States of Europe" and is awarded the first European Book Prize.

2012 Viviane Reding Vice-President of the European Commission
Why we need a United States of Europe now

2014 Matteo Renzi Italian Prime Minister
said that Italy will push for a "United States of Europe" during its six-month EU presidency

2017 Martin Schulz Social Democratic Party leader and Queenmaker in the current German political crisis.
called for the creation of a “United States of Europe” by 2025

I could go on, all the way back to Winston bloody Churchill.
But you cannot deny the trend. Show us when the eu has given up powers that it has taken. When it has reversed the trend. You cant.

Why do you wilfully cover up this obvious political goal with the tired "swivel-eyed loons" bollocks that was coined by mate of Cameron Lord Feldman?
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Cerebus Sticky! Sticky! Stick! Stick!, Wed 13 Dec 2017, 13:44, Reply)

Let's break down your straw man again - A few choice quotes from enthusiastic pro-europeans doesn't equal manifest destiny any more than BoJo promising 350m back to the NHS.

Yes, lots of nations in Europe are enthusiastically for greater and tighter integration because it will directly benefit the european nations from a number of perspectives including financially and militarily.

Finally, what terrifies you so about a United States of Europe (that doesn't exist) that you would cut off your own nose to spite your face?? What are you scared of?
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DinivanX Has stinging piss after drinking Pact Coffee, Wed 13 Dec 2017, 14:11, Reply)

it's the forrins again

(benito vaselini no not that one, Wed 13 Dec 2017, 14:32, Reply)

I really am still trying to understand the motivation that made people vote Leave.

My colleague (who is diagnosed autistic) voted Brexit because he wanted the economy to suffer so house prices would fall and he'd be more able to buy his son's houses in future with his savings (he admitted he hadn't thought through wanting his sons to get jobs in a thriving economy and 28 possible nations). At least there's a thought process going on there.

I understand the rich people who want out of the EU before their tax havens are clamped down upon.

I even understand the racists, apart from the morons who say "I see too many brown faces" who quite clearly don't know what and where Europe is.

I don't understand the argument "Bbbut eeeeeuurope" whilst pointing across the channel shivering in fear - What is that fear predicated on!?

Anyway, middle-class metropolitan (both positive labels over 'Unemployed Provincial' for example) circle jerk over.
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DinivanX Has stinging piss after drinking Pact Coffee, Wed 13 Dec 2017, 15:47, Reply)

You know what... I can't keep fucking debating the eu with you anymore.
It's so incredibly dull I actually hate myself for taking part in it for the billionth time. It's the same fucking arguments over and over again.

Christ knows what it's like for other members that don't give a shit about the whole deal. Must be bored as fuck.

So I'm bailing on this until there's actually some sort of proper development to discuss. Just going to let you and benny circle jerk in your little middle class metropolitan bubble and get on with something more productive.
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Cerebus Sticky! Sticky! Stick! Stick!, Wed 13 Dec 2017, 14:33, Reply)

You can't articulate your fear because it's irrational
Simple.
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DinivanX Has stinging piss after drinking Pact Coffee, Wed 13 Dec 2017, 14:37, Reply)

There are just as many who oppose this concept as are for it, you cherry picking some examples does not make it an inevitability. The EU haven't "taken" anything, democratically elected UK MPs signed us up to it all. Swivel-eyed loons because where some see imperfect peace, prosperity and cooperation they see conspiracy and dystopia.
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transparenttown Dead to worse..., Wed 13 Dec 2017, 14:14, Reply)

Oh my god, are you going for a record.
Slippery-slope, personal-incredulity, loaded question and straw man.
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transparenttown Dead to worse..., Wed 13 Dec 2017, 13:20, Reply)

A host gets 10 people to vote in 2015 for what they wanted to drink at a New Year party, 6/10 opting for fizzy English dog piss over flat Prosecco. 2017, turns out the piss has gone flat and costs way more than everyone thought. 2019, an almost entirely different set of 10 people are sitting around at a New Year party wondering why they are drinking flat dog piss costing £39bn.
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transparenttown Dead to worse..., Wed 13 Dec 2017, 13:04, Reply)