>The underlying root of the problem is the sheer number of human beings on the planet.
nonsense - it is how those human beings choose to organise themselves into some sort of a functioning society that counts.
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artifus is doing it all wrong, Sun 27 Oct 2019, 15:56,
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The late Hans Roslig did a lot of work on this, and there's massive improvements in reduction of birth rates.
But it remains a fact that the best thing the smug twat in the picture could have done for the environment is not have the daughter he is parading.
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da5id <YOUR SIG HERE>, Sun 27 Oct 2019, 16:10,
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yeah his daughter should be glad she wasn't born in a third world country in the eighties
else it could be geldof or bono parading her about the lucky cow
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artifus is doing it all wrong, Sun 27 Oct 2019, 16:16,
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Ooh you don't want me to get started on Live Aid...
Live Aid total money raised: about $150 million. Slightly less than the cost of a single F117 stealth fighter.
Total world military expenditure 2018: $1,800,000 million ($1.8 trillion)
"Take all that money we spend on weapons and defence each year and instead spend it feeding, clothing and educating the poor of the world - which it would many times over, not one human being excluded - and we can explore space together, both inner and outer, forever, and in peace"
RIP Bill Hicks.
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da5id <YOUR SIG HERE>, Sun 27 Oct 2019, 16:42,
Reply)
Bread and circuses for the masses, like the Olympics etc.
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FeralCatMan Unusual disease collector., Sun 27 Oct 2019, 16:47,
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I heard a number in the 80's
which I feel still holds true, although I have no hard facts that are current.
The cost of housing, feeding, and clothing the world for a year is roughly the same as the spending on the military every two weeks.
I do know that the Iraq war at its height was costing $25 billion a month (including costs like medical for returned vets), at the time adjusted for inflation the entire Apollo program cost $100 billion so for every four months of the Iraq war we could have had an entire moon program, including R&D, training, and 10 moon missions.
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My Name was saying these words inside your head on, Sun 27 Oct 2019, 19:45,
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"Couldn't we feasibly use that same technology to shoot food at hungry people?"
(, Tue 29 Oct 2019, 17:31, Reply)
now then now then i'm sure there was a lorra good work for charidee
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artifus is doing it all wrong, Mon 28 Oct 2019, 3:14,
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Rosling said it would top out at 11bn
As he said, the birth rate will sort itself out once people are allowed to move out of poverty, and don't have to battle high rates of infant mortality.
This is happening already.
So, while it's true that having a child is the number one factor in determining your life long carbon footprint, it's probably going to be fine from a global population point of view.
Until I hear a convincing reason why not, I'm of the opinion that 11bn people will be fine,provided we get our shit together soon.
(, Sun 27 Oct 2019, 17:08, Reply)
Yes, but increasing inequality is making it impossible to rise out of poverty.
Average wages are rising across the Western world, but mainly because the super rich are raking it in; actual pay for the great majority is static, and compounded by worse access to education, housing, water and healthcare.
I agree that this could all be sorted out, but there's only one country with the will to tackle these thorny issues, and that's China!
(cue the unpopular opinion police)
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da5id <YOUR SIG HERE>, Sun 27 Oct 2019, 17:13,
Reply)
Get our shit together?!
We are failing to build adequate housing, transport infrastructure and can't even produce enough food in one of the richest countries. Hoping 'somebody' will sort it out is wishful thinking.
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FeralCatMan Unusual disease collector., Sun 27 Oct 2019, 18:50,
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should have been more specific I suppose
I meant get our shit together and achieve net zero carbon asap (this was an XR post after all).
And on that alone, I don't expect 'someone' to sort it out, I think everyone will have to push to make it happen.
(, Sun 27 Oct 2019, 19:28, Reply)
We're the only species on the planet that relies on a finite resource in order to function as a society.
Show me just one member of Extinction Rebellion who does not rely on fossil fuels or the byproducts of fossil fuels in some way or another.
It doesn't matter how many hearts and minds you think you're winning by disrupting people's morning commute. It doesn't matter how people 'organise' themselves. We've reached a point in our civilisation where we can no longer function without the aid of crude oil. No amount of boycotting plastic straws will change that.
As Da5id says, the only way to make a true, meaningful contribution the welfare of our planet is to stop making more people. We're an inherently selfish species. We always have been, and we always will be. It's just how it is. Extinction Rebellion seem to be under the illusion that they can change human nature. They can't. We'll all be dead from a Global Resource Conflict/major pandemic/singularity long before we can even come close to causing some kind of permanent damage to our planet, anyway.
(, Sun 27 Oct 2019, 16:45, Reply)
I can't wait for eco-terrorists to be the new jihadis.
"People are killing the planet, so we'll save the planet by killing as many humans as we can."
(, Sun 27 Oct 2019, 17:09, Reply)
Nah.
But I forgive you for reproducing. The carbon footprint of their children isn't often something a prospective parent considers.
(, Sun 27 Oct 2019, 17:23, Reply)
It's not blame or forgiving
It's not about the actions of the individual living inside a toxic system.
People often do things because they have little or no choice.
It's about collectively getting together and standing up to make the system change.
(ultimately that might include changes that every individual contributes toward.)
Because the likely alternative of a slide into natural disaster, food and inhabitable land shortages, mass migration, chaos and war sounds really shit.
(, Sun 27 Oct 2019, 19:44, Reply)
This opinion brought to you by the creators of
'let's just crack on with brexit' and 'i don't see anything wrong with calling them coloureds'
(, Sun 27 Oct 2019, 18:55, Reply)
Surely you can see though
that, in an example taken to extremes to show a point, if there were only 10 people on the planet then they could do literally anything, drive the worst vehicle, club seals all day, eat all the meat they like, drive a tractor everywhere powered by coal which crushes animals every mile, or even fly their own jumbo jet daily on a constant holiday and not affect the planet at all.
It would carry on fine and be able to ignore them.
Conversely, if there were 100 billion people, just feeding them a vegan diet, while they were trapped in their homes trying to not breathe much or use calories, not driving, off-grid and being as environmental as they could then that would destroy the environment.
Somewhere in between is the number of people where we could live a life of excess and joy and not destroy the planet, and at a higher number is the amount of people the planet could support if we lived carefully. And it would not matter how they organised themselves, the sheer number of them is destructive.
Surely you can see that at some point, we will have to choose whether it is more important to have many people barely existing, or a lesser number living well?
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My Name was saying these words inside your head on, Sun 27 Oct 2019, 19:19,
Reply)
I took that as more of a...
In the context of how many people there are right now, and where that number is predicted to level off, population size is less of a problem then the climate.
(, Sun 27 Oct 2019, 19:34, Reply)
True
As that bloke with the cubes demonstrated, we are nearing the maximum population and it will be roughly 11-13 billion.
Which is manageable IMO.
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My Name was saying these words inside your head on, Sun 27 Oct 2019, 19:47,
Reply)
We should be shipping people off to space to colonise other worlds
It might take hundreds to years to reach the nearest system, but we should learnt to reproduce within limits and sustain a few generations for the journey. Once we reach a habital world we can colonise, if we're not eaten by the locals of course.
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Fadgebadger Sweaty sumo wanks for everyone!, Sun 27 Oct 2019, 20:23,
Reply)
...
www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVkYaZXCl8U
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artifus is doing it all wrong, Mon 28 Oct 2019, 0:37,
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^ there's a brexit joke in there somewhere
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artifus is doing it all wrong, Mon 28 Oct 2019, 1:48,
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You first then.
I quite like Earth.
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wheresthefish Partly filled with wrong, Mon 28 Oct 2019, 7:26,
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Not everyone obvs
I was thinking brexiters, trump supporters, the Tories etc etc
I like it here too
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Fadgebadger Sweaty sumo wanks for everyone!, Mon 28 Oct 2019, 8:27,
Reply)