And that’s the issue
Trans activism takes the courtesy, and turns it into a fundamental assumption. Granting that courtesy earns one a short term boost in being seen as kind, but once you’re in, you’re expected to be all the way in. Once you’re using those pronouns, if you articulate an argument that in some circumstances sex matters, you’ll be asked “but how do you square that with your apparently inclusive stance? Don’t you believe trans women are women?”
Or if you refer to a trans rapist as “he”, on the basis that a rapist isn’t doing much to create the impression that he’s a woman, you’ll be told that you’re gatekeeping womanhood, and that if recognising trans women as women is dependent on behaviour, you never believed it. And are therefore a bigot.
That’s why I’ve decided to be a conscientious objector to preferred pronouns, and make exceptions only where I consider it appropriate (while understanding that if that is a problem for some, we’re unlikely to get on)
(, Sun 8 Aug 2021, 15:38, Reply)
Lots of assumptions and criticism of opinions you imagine imaginary people will have.
(
brb man-child cuck corporate supplicant fuck, Sun 8 Aug 2021, 16:04,
Reply)
this is fair point, people are always getting worked up about things that don't really affect them
I think there's some tricky questions around sport, but it doesn't affect me, not being a female olympic hopeful. and there's a live US issue around trannies in womens prisons. basically a couple of trannies were put in a womans prison and then started raping the inmates, who then took the prison service all the way to the supreme court. the judge said it was difficult balancing the rights of trannies to be treated as women, with the rights of female prisoners to safety, but recently ruled on the trannies side. Now I disagree, but again this doesn't affect me, and even if I was to campaign for prison reform, there's a lot bigger fish to fry than that one, especially in the states
(
cumquat may will not be commenting further on the allegations, Sun 8 Aug 2021, 23:38,
Reply)
And have you met anyone in the real world to
conscientiously object to yet?
(
monkeon schmonkeon, Sun 8 Aug 2021, 19:28,
Reply)
Yes
Absolutely.
Not that it’s not a sensitive thing to navigate, but I do maintain that I won’t demonstrate belief to a thing I don’t believe in
(, Sun 8 Aug 2021, 22:00, Reply)
What do you do when
someone you know is getting married and you don't believe it will last?
Don't go to the wedding or stand up and object?
(
monkeon schmonkeon, Sun 8 Aug 2021, 22:36,
Reply)
People getting married
Doesn’t ask anything of me.
People telling me what I have to perceive them as, does.
(, Mon 9 Aug 2021, 7:57, Reply)
It is asking you to spend lots of money
on a boring day out. It is pretending to be happy for them, when you think it is a mistake. If you are an atheist and they marry in a church, it is performing in a religious ceremony.
It is physically demonstrating a belief you don't believe in.
(
monkeon schmonkeon, Mon 9 Aug 2021, 9:44,
Reply)
If you are an atheist and they marry in a church, it is performing in a religious ceremony
You seem to be taking someone else's special day and saying "but what about meeeeee?".
If they're friends then go along and play the part. Nobody is asking you to believe in any of this shit. Half the people there don't. And if you can't find a way of enjoying yourself at the reception then just don't go. It costs them a fuckload to cater to you, so don't go and act the miserable teenager.
(
evil_andy Stick stick stick stick sticky sticky stick stick, Mon 9 Aug 2021, 20:41,
Reply)
I do go along with it. As you say, it's only polite.
Using preferred pronouns is also polite.
I was just curious where someone who "won’t demonstrate belief to a thing I don’t believe in" stands on the issue.
(
monkeon schmonkeon, Mon 9 Aug 2021, 21:21,
Reply)
Both things are considered “polite”to do
However attending a wedding is not akin to using preferred pronouns, as preferred pronouns can often lead to a situation where they make useful language difficult or impossible - and in fact, that’s the point.
Perhaps people shouldn’t invest so much meaning in the perceptions of others?
(, Tue 10 Aug 2021, 7:01, Reply)