as one of my old lecturers said, there's a certain so whatness factor about it
given that one of the goals is to tell if these exoplanets discovered are habitable. if the probe New Horizons were to continue to the proxima centauri at current speeds, it would take 54000 years and then there's the small issue of slowing down. and being a flare star it's not a particularly good candidate for habitability
knowledge for it's own sake is fine, but I'm not sure if Biden's "We can go places no-one has ever gone before" will ever see humans do anything beyond caravanning in the kuiper belt
(
cumquat may will not be commenting further on the allegations, Tue 12 Jul 2022, 1:49,
Reply)
Yes, we just have a better view of how insignificant we are.
Battletrek Galacticstar Wars isn't happening kids, sorry.
(
FeralCatMan Long ads need comments sections, Tue 12 Jul 2022, 2:41,
Reply)
I tend to view things the other way, FCM
it all seems massively improbable to get here, billions of years of evolution somehow surviving in a hostile universe just so I now I can piss my time away writing internet comments
maybe I'll have another beer, too
(
cumquat may will not be commenting further on the allegations, Tue 12 Jul 2022, 7:20,
Reply)
That's assuming we are the only living things.
What's more important is, WHY IS EVERYONE DRINKING WHEN I'M ON ALCOHOL FREE DAYS!
More synchronisation is required.
(
FeralCatMan Long ads need comments sections, Tue 12 Jul 2022, 14:32,
Reply)
Ah... but... what if it already has and we are the descendants of those fine space warriors.
*ponders
(
TBL I posted this on, Tue 12 Jul 2022, 13:45,
Reply)
Where are the fossils then?
(
FeralCatMan Long ads need comments sections, Tue 12 Jul 2022, 17:40,
Reply)
What if the space warriors simply seeded us with their DNA via panspermia?
The dirty bastards.
(
brb man-child cuck corporate supplicant fuck, Tue 12 Jul 2022, 19:31,
Reply)
Panspermia, when you annoy the chef.
(
FeralCatMan Long ads need comments sections, Tue 12 Jul 2022, 22:28,
Reply)
Humans, as we are now, standing on non-rotating, magic-gravity-having space ships, having a new adventure every week
is probably a very primitive fantasy.
The post-biological descendants of humans will be much better suited to colonising the galaxy, which we will do.
(
brb man-child cuck corporate supplicant fuck, Tue 12 Jul 2022, 15:27,
Reply)
Pretty standard wish fulfillment, derived from classic stories.
You're very confident about human derivatives colonising, I don't have the same faith in humans.
(
FeralCatMan Long ads need comments sections, Tue 12 Jul 2022, 16:36,
Reply)
I'm optimistic.
Industrial/technological advances in 3d printing and ISRU seem to point towards Von Neumann Probes becoming a reality:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-replicating_spacecraft
We need to turn to space to fix the problems of ecosystem collapse and asteroid strikes anyway. Fixing this planet will teach us how to fix others....
Once those issues are solved it's kind of inevitable that we will have to spread out somehow, unless we (or whichever species is dominant by then) decide it's best to all die when the sun expands.
I think it would be a terrible thing to let a good galaxy go to waste. If we are the first, or even the only life in our observable bubble then we are obliged to make use of it and to spread life and intelligence as far as we can. I can't think of a valid moral opposition to the idea.
(
brb man-child cuck corporate supplicant fuck, Tue 12 Jul 2022, 17:47,
Reply)
Looking at the way people treat each other, let alone general competition between species.
That's a valid moral point, then there is the possibility of carrying microbes to the other planets' inhabitants.
I suppose it might be possible for a very tiny number of people using technologies as yet unknown, far into the future.
Whether non-biological humans could actually 'be' human is a discussion in itself.
I tried optimism once, it was awful.
(
FeralCatMan Long ads need comments sections, Tue 12 Jul 2022, 23:27,
Reply)
Being human is overrated.
I think I am a biological machine, a meat robot, if you will. There's no such thing as the soul, nothing at all spiritually significant about being human rather than a sponge or a pineapple.
I think if I were to replace every part of you with equivalent or superior technology, piece by piece, even braincell by braincell, there would not come a point when you'd consider yourself less than human.
(
brb man-child cuck corporate supplicant fuck, Wed 13 Jul 2022, 0:25,
Reply)
That's really is a thought experiment, unlikely to become a reality.
I don't understand what is meant by a soul really, it's part of some old religious superstition.
The awareness of one's body through multiple networks (eg. More serotonin is present in the digestive system than in the brain), proprioception etc would have to be modelled.
An exact replica in metal is a fantasy.
(
FeralCatMan Long ads need comments sections, Wed 13 Jul 2022, 5:15,
Reply)
Does wearing a hearing aid,
or a pacemaker, or a titanium or plastic hip, make you less human?
If you use a telescope, or read a dictionary, or use a device to access information, does that make you less human?
(
brb man-child cuck corporate supplicant fuck, Wed 13 Jul 2022, 14:42,
Reply)
cogitas ergo est
As far as we know our species is the only one to contemplate the idea of an immortal soul. We're probably wrong, but that still makes us special compared to other animals.
(
jonbob loves you, Wed 13 Jul 2022, 7:10,
Reply)
Why do you assert that contemplating a false idea of inflated self importance makes one special?
(
brb man-child cuck corporate supplicant fuck, Wed 13 Jul 2022, 14:19,
Reply)
"We need to turn to space to fix the problems of ecosystem collapse"
Because it's much easier than convincing humans to eat less meat, consume less and stop reproducing?
Why would you wish to export this cancerous parasitic form of life beyond this planet?
(
Mudface The web isn't callipygian, Wed 13 Jul 2022, 10:03,
Reply)
This is my fault for assuming everyone understands what I mean when I use words.
Without space technology we would not understand the predicament our ecosystem is in.
climate.nasa.gov/
Turning to space to fix the ecosystem means turning to space based observation of this planet's atmosphere compared to others, and acting on that knowledge.
It also means employing more technology to alleviate the effects of anthropomorphic climate change (sun shields, mirrors, moving polluting industry off-world, etc.).
You're not going to convince a species to stop reproducing, certainly not humans, and if you think of yourself as a cancer then I feel sorry for you.
(
brb man-child cuck corporate supplicant fuck, Wed 13 Jul 2022, 14:29,
Reply)
We already know what action is needed to fix ecosystems
The biggest obstacle is human behaviour. Developing those fancy technologies you mentioned will take too long and might lead to risk compensation. In any case, existing nature-based solutions are cheaper and less likely to have unexpected consequences.
Well, generation Alpha or Beta might produce an antinatalist Greta so there's still hope.
(
Mudface The web isn't callipygian, Wed 13 Jul 2022, 21:15,
Reply)
Just to reiterate, we only know of our problems because of data collected from space observation,
or to put it less controversially, evidence collected from weather and climate monitoring satellites confirms and falsifies purely ground/ocean based data, and reveals information that would otherwise go unrecorded. Evidence recorded from other planets in our solar system teaches us about our planet.
We have learned a great deal about our climate from space based observation, and we will continue to do so.
It's all very well saying a lentil weaving alternative would be better, but in the meantime we urgently need to avert the catastrophe we've been creating for the past couple of centuries. Vegan drum circles and yogic flying will not work.
(
brb man-child cuck corporate supplicant fuck, Wed 13 Jul 2022, 22:14,
Reply)
Less technological solutions may work better for less rich countries.
There is a vast amount we don't know about how the natural world works. Why not fix that as well as exploring tech solutions which may cost so much as to be only useful for very small percentage of people.
Don't mix up superstitious or romantic free range yoghurt weaving with actual biology/chemistry/medicine etc.
The societies that gave rise to the amazing data collection also caused the problems.
(
FeralCatMan Long ads need comments sections, Thu 14 Jul 2022, 2:21,
Reply)
Let's face it
For most people it's "intelligent anally probing ET life or GTFO"
(
Mudface The web isn't callipygian, Tue 12 Jul 2022, 4:21,
Reply)
you don't want amateur anal probing, trust me
*taps nose*
(
cumquat may will not be commenting further on the allegations, Tue 12 Jul 2022, 5:55,
Reply)
If you’re tapping the nose you’ve gone too far.
(
wheresthefish Partly filled with wrong, Tue 12 Jul 2022, 15:03,
Reply)
We'll all be long dead before we manage to develop a viable solution for colonising anything beyond our solar system.
I reckon we'll almost certainly have ISS types working/living on Mars before the century is out, but I doubt the installations will have the self sustainability (or have the requisite genetic diversity) to serve as a new seed for humanity when things on Earth inevitably go tits-up in one way or another.
No doubt the images will provide a wealth of valuable information for physicists (actual visible evidence of gravitational lensing is pretty fucking cool) but yeah, I think a lot of folk get a bit lost in just how utterly mind-boggling these distances really are. A light year is the equivalent of travelling from Earth to the Sun and back again 31,620 times. And the Sun is already an almost inconceivable distance from Earth when we generally think in units of 'How long would it take to drive from Edinburgh to London?' or 'Bloody hell, a flight to Australia takes a while!'.
(, Tue 12 Jul 2022, 19:24, Reply)
The solutions already exist. Loads of them. The general principles are not that hard, they just need adequate engineering solutions,
which will become much clearer as soon as we actually start doing it.
Rocks can travel between star systems. We're a little bit smarter than rocks.
(
brb man-child cuck corporate supplicant fuck, Tue 12 Jul 2022, 21:53,
Reply)
A little but smarter, but hindered significantly by a lifespan of around 80-100 years (assuming micro-gravity doesn't put a massive dunt in that number)
I'm no Scott Manley/Isaac Arthur, but it seems to me that the most viable solution would be an O'Neill cylinder-type vessel large enough to support a genetically diverse multi-generational populace on their voyage to Earth 2.0
The biggest stumbling block most likely being that the financial and logistical cost of such an endeavour would almost certainly require just about every single developed and somewhat-developed nation on the planet working together in complete harmony (plus all the less developed ones voluntarily handing over all their precious metals/fossil fuels)
Even if we managed an internationally unified approach to the project, I don't think there would be enough money in the world (literally) to pay for the utterly mind-boggling amount of man hours that would be required for the fabrication and construction of something of that scale.
I think we're much more likely to end up building a big floating Tesla/Amazon branded motorway service station between here and the Mars to act as a supply/refueling point which will allow us to more easily colonise and ultimately end up murdering each other all over again fighting for land and resources there, instead.
(, Tue 12 Jul 2022, 22:51, Reply)
In reverse order:
There's little point in having a station halfway, whatever that means (wouldn't that often be the sun?)....
It would be more efficient to fly straight to Mars rather than starting and stopping on the way. A Buzz Aldrin cycler in a complicated orbit that crosses Earth and Mars' spheres of gravitational influence is possibly what you mean, and would probably need to be either a well-shielded O'Neill cylinder or wheel (which could be better for transitioning between Earth and Mars gravity) to make the extra costs worthwhile.
But there are simpler solutions for spin gravity using existing technology (a modular/multistage rocket and a tether to connect them). We don't need a Babylon 5 to get about.
Money, like God, is just something we made up to have power over people. When asteroid mining is a reality the economic system will have to adapt or die, and I hope for the latter.
We do not need to build a death star and take a giant zoo with us anyway. A quantity of simple, hardy, simply sustainable biomass, maybe. We don't need to take humans to spread life.
I think the most viable option is a self replicating fleet of robots, each with a copy of the book of life (being the genetic code of every organism we decide to take to a new star system, maybe leaving behind the tongue-eating parasites and whatnot), and the ability to print bacteria and simple organisms useful for terraforming. If we never crack cell-printing, we'd need to bring some biomass to imprint genetic info into existing cells. Humans from Sol may come later, but potentially they wouldn't need to, as the robots could raise humans from printed cells.
If the goal is just to spread life rather than create new worlds for humans, we could reduce the costs significantly. We'd just need the smallest possible craft to house the smallest viable quantity of bacteria to survive for tens of thousands of years, sent to each habitable planet in the galaxy. Think ships the size of bullets, and launched in much the same way. We could just send a thousand to each star and hope one or two land on a planet with an atmosphere.
There's possibly an ethical problem if we send a bacterial colonising fleet to a world where life of its own has started independently.
Also we could probably engineer a bacteria that would make an airless rock into a habitable world, too (though lithobraking at several thousands of kilometres per second might remain an engineering problem for a very long time).
(
brb man-child cuck corporate supplicant fuck, Wed 13 Jul 2022, 0:11,
Reply)
Robots raising humans?
I'm sure I read that in a book once. They all ended up as amoral psychopaths.
(
jonbob loves you, Wed 13 Jul 2022, 1:40,
Reply)
Please do not throw hands at me.
(
brb man-child cuck corporate supplicant fuck, Wed 13 Jul 2022, 15:25,
Reply)
"Money, like God, is just something we made up to have power over people."
Your grasp of economics appears to be tentative, at best.
(, Wed 13 Jul 2022, 7:45, Reply)
Without trying to insult you,
your grasp of economics appears to be worthlessly limited if you don't understand the very first thing about money (that we made it up).
(
brb man-child cuck corporate supplicant fuck, Wed 13 Jul 2022, 14:36,
Reply)
There is literally not enough money in the world to construct a vessel on the scale we're talking about.
The sheer size of workforce required (fabricators, engineers, scientists, caterers, janitors, etc) would either require just about every employee to work for a fraction of the wage they are accustomed to (good luck with that) or flooding the economy with extra cash, significantly lowering its value and basically ending up at the same point where workers are earning significantly lower equivalent wage for the same work.
And we havent even started to consider the economic and social ramifications of taking this mammoth workforce away from their day jobs.
Your grasp of economics seems tentative because you seem to assume that because money is some evil capitalist construct, that it's irrelevant. That is hardly the case.
Perhaps if we ever achieve the kind of human utopia described in TNG where money and wealth truly are no longer relevant, you might have a point. But I suspect we're even further than that than we are from ab O'Neill Cylinder.
(, Wed 13 Jul 2022, 18:31, Reply)
I invite you to read up on asteroid mining and then have another go at thinking about this.
*Clue*
Very few people would have a hand in building this stuff, and it's not going to be built at the bottom of a gravity well.
(
brb man-child cuck corporate supplicant fuck, Wed 13 Jul 2022, 20:56,
Reply)
I don’t think he was objecting to that part
I suspect he was objecting to your ascribed purpose for inventing it.
On account of it being complete bollocks.
(
wheresthefish Partly filled with wrong, Wed 13 Jul 2022, 18:38,
Reply)