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This is a normal post It's not the expense
but the principle of the experiment in the first place. I get angry when science is wasted on disproving irrational theories so it can then proceed with more important things. The burden of proof for these wild claims of near-death experience should rest with the claimants, not the scientific establishment.

It's like the idea of conducting a double-blind study to see if the power of prayer assists with healing. There's no rational reason to believe that it would, but still these studies go ahead. As a person of science and rigour, I find it incredibly frustrating to see resources being spent in this way.

Has any scientific study ever produced evidence of paranormal activity (which by definition is anything that cannot eventually be explained by science)? No, it has not and as the definition suggests, it cannot. This study will be no different. It is a folly, nothing more.

Those who say "go on, give it a chance" are somewhat naive and miss the point. There's always a miniscule chance that *any* study will bring about some new understanding, but in studies like this, that's only going to happen by accident.
 (I helped save b3ta! chart cat has an itch, Thu 18 Sep 2008, 11:48, , Reply)
This is a normal post Well, I disagree
The best way to prove someone is wrong is with empirical evidence.
 (I helped save b3ta! The Coast Of Yemen, Thu 18 Sep 2008, 11:58, , Reply)
This is a normal post And anyway
I'm sure there have been studies where people have been sure one thing was going to happen, and were totally surprised by the outcome.
 (I helped save b3ta! The Coast Of Yemen, Thu 18 Sep 2008, 12:01, , Reply)
This is a normal post No!
Say it aint so Coasty! Science knows everything surely?
 (I helped save b3ta! Redsushi! Whoop! Whoop! Yes, that one!, Thu 18 Sep 2008, 12:10, , Reply)
This is a normal post QED!
www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0N_CHOZKZM
 (I helped save b3ta! Redsushi! Whoop! Whoop! Yes, that one!, Thu 18 Sep 2008, 12:18, , Reply)
This is a normal post I agree with that too
But why should it be necessary? Just because there's a crackpot theory with no conceivable explanation in science, why is it then given enough credence to warrant further scientific investigation?

My point is simply that the chances of anything being positively proven are close to zero. Doing experiments just to prove that something is wrong when you are already certain of the outcome is a waste of time.
 (I helped save b3ta! chart cat has an itch, Thu 18 Sep 2008, 12:07, , Reply)
This is a normal post Time is relative
Therefore, what may be a waste of your time is not necessarily a waste of someone else's

;)
 (I helped save b3ta! The Coast Of Yemen, Thu 18 Sep 2008, 12:15, , Reply)
This is a normal post You are certain it is wrong?

(I helped save b3ta! LordManley twitter.com/LordManley, Thu 18 Sep 2008, 12:46, , Reply)
This is a normal post
Onus of proof is a shit argument.

If the out of body chap wants me to believe that there is an out of body experience then the onus is on him, if you want me to believe that there is not then the onus is on you.

What we have is a very unusual situation which, when experienced, often results in the subject reporting a common feeling of leaving the body.

Since the only reports we have are from those subjects then it makes sense to see what causes this common theme.

The result that they see pictures is not an expected one, but it is worth checking anything where so many subjects report similar results, particularly when the cost is so very low.

it may be that we get an insight into what is seen - maybe if they were shown the room from above before the operation and then the pictures were changed then we would get an idea of memory displacement, but probably chucking a few old prints on a top shelf is a very cheap way to see if they see anything.

'Tell you what Jack, let's chuck this old Constable print up on the shelf there, then we'll know whether they really do float, the barmy buggers'
'yeah, okay Maud, here, lend me a chair to stand on'

Hardly a 'waste' of science.
 (I helped save b3ta! LordManley twitter.com/LordManley, Thu 18 Sep 2008, 12:05, , Reply)
This is a normal post I don't want you to believe anything in particular
I'd rather you just dismissed this experiment for what it is; a complete waste of effort.
 (I helped save b3ta! chart cat has an itch, Thu 18 Sep 2008, 12:17, , Reply)
This is a normal post I hope I am not speaking out of turn Pedantichrist,
but I think that is the point he is trying to make. That is isn't a waste of effort to the scientists who have proposed and are working on the project clearly. The fact of the matter is that there may be a spirit world, and there may not be. However, the purpose of science is to prove it one way or the other. Which means that some experiments will need to be done over and over until there is conclusive proof surely?
 (I helped save b3ta! Redsushi! Whoop! Whoop! Yes, that one!, Thu 18 Sep 2008, 12:29, , Reply)
This is a normal post At least they will need to be done if anyone wants to be able to say one way or the other.
To be honest, when the experiment involves putting a picture on the top shelf it seems ridiculous not to do it.
 (I helped save b3ta! LordManley twitter.com/LordManley, Thu 18 Sep 2008, 12:43, , Reply)
This is a normal post 25 hospitals in the UK and America
All recording the results and analysing them, each requiring effort, time and expense.

Rather more than "jputting a picture on the top shelf"

But then you already knew that. I get the feeling I'm being trolled quite a bit here by about three or four people who seem to have an incontrovertible (yet inexplicable) belief that all experimentation is equally worthy.

It isn't.
 (I helped save b3ta! chart cat has an itch, Thu 18 Sep 2008, 13:03, , Reply)
This is a normal post That is not what anyone has said whatsoever.
However, the argument against your statement is that you say it has no worth. A very different thing from saying it has less worth than finding a cure for cancer say.

I don't think anyone in their right mind would claim that.
 (I helped save b3ta! Redsushi! Whoop! Whoop! Yes, that one!, Thu 18 Sep 2008, 13:07, , Reply)
This is a normal post I don't understand what makes you the judge of what is worthy and what isn't.
You haven't offered a rational argument to suggest that you have the capacity to make those decisions.

We'd still be in the dark ages with your idea of "science".
 (I helped save b3ta! gronkpan @vomitinglarry.bsky.social, Thu 18 Sep 2008, 13:10, , Reply)
This is a normal post I don't think the Rt Hon Gentleman has any response anymore....

(I helped save b3ta! Redsushi! Whoop! Whoop! Yes, that one!, Thu 18 Sep 2008, 13:24, , Reply)
This is a normal post yes im sure your idea of testing thoeries based on random shit will work great
"care to help me test wether my hypothis being an energy wave based on my expriance of light defracting through glass". "no no im far to busy trying to find the invisable faires down the bottom of my garden, it could be true for all we know you cant prove its not!"
 (zaitsevrogue9, Thu 18 Sep 2008, 13:46, , Reply)
This is a normal post But it isn't random.
Many many people have claimed to have these experiences!
 (I helped save b3ta! Redsushi! Whoop! Whoop! Yes, that one!, Thu 18 Sep 2008, 13:49, , Reply)
This is a normal post yeah many poeple of lots of diffrent hallucniations many times on a common theme
why pick out the haaluncion about death in order to test
 (zaitsevrogue9, Thu 18 Sep 2008, 13:52, , Reply)
This is a normal post Because it is easy to test?

(I helped save b3ta! LordManley twitter.com/LordManley, Thu 18 Sep 2008, 14:45, , Reply)
This is a normal post If someone has a theory and they want to test it in real life
then that is what we call SCIENCE.

If they get proven wrong, then well done, now we know.

If it can't be proven either way, it isn't science and as such shouldn't be argued about. That would be pointless.

Did you read the article?

"this is a mystery that we can now subject to scientific study"

So if it turns out to be wrong, they get to shut the fuck up.

THIS IS HOW SCIENCE WORKS.

Do you understand what the scientific method is? It's great, you should look into it.
 (I helped save b3ta! gronkpan @vomitinglarry.bsky.social, Thu 18 Sep 2008, 13:56, , Reply)
This is a normal post im not questiong wether its a scintific exsperiment
im questionig the basis for the beilf that the theory has a resanble exspectation of being true. its not a scintific theory there are such things as scintific thereis im questiong wehter or not the after life is one
 (zaitsevrogue9, Thu 18 Sep 2008, 14:05, , Reply)
This is a normal post That's well outside the scope of the original discussion.
Afterlife vs out of body experiences can be a discussion for another day.
 (I helped save b3ta! gronkpan @vomitinglarry.bsky.social, Thu 18 Sep 2008, 14:13, , Reply)