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This is a normal post So when oil runs out or when an alternative to oil is found and is mainstream.
Or just build a massive wall around the place?
 (pissflaps. FSPW, Thu 19 Jul 2012, 12:06, Reply)
This is a normal post I think the situation over there at the moment
is much like it was in Europe about 400 years ago, their politico-social timeline is just like ours but 3/4 centuries behind. In another hundred years they'll be having their own "enlightenment". Maybe sooner, because of information technology.

I think we've just got to leave them to it, they have to be able to stand on their own feet because whenever we try to prop up a regime in order to force our values on the region, that's what makes these people, they think the Crusades are still going on.
 (I helped save b3ta! Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Thu 19 Jul 2012, 12:11, Reply)
This is a normal post The Crusades are still going on.
Just the players are different.
 (I helped save b3ta! Cerebus Sticky! Sticky! Stick! Stick!, Thu 19 Jul 2012, 12:25, Reply)
This is a normal post Yes,
well, quite.

The thing they are trying to fight against is a very real thing, and a very real threat to their way of life and values. So we present them as trying to destroy our way of life and our values, but we think that because our violence against them is state sanctioned, it's therefore rational and proper.
 (I helped save b3ta! Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Thu 19 Jul 2012, 12:28, Reply)
This is a normal post No that's not what I said....
The crusades are still going on.
People are killing to spread their religion and to secure holy sites.

And the Jihadists don't represent the life and values Muslim populations any more than the brown shirts represented the British public
 (I helped save b3ta! Cerebus Sticky! Sticky! Stick! Stick!, Thu 19 Jul 2012, 12:38, Reply)
This is a normal post Bollocks are they,
the Muslims already have all the holy sites, the two holiest ones, Medina and Mecca, being in Saudi Arabia. Unless they want Stonehenge I don't know what you're referring to.

Jihadists don't represent most ordinary Muslims, this is true. Nevertheless they are fighting for what they believe to be their own indigenous culture, even against other Muslims in fact. We are seeing that in Syria.
 (I helped save b3ta! Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Thu 19 Jul 2012, 12:45, Reply)
This is a normal post Fannies they are.
What, Jerusalem isn't a holy site?

And Syria isn't about religion.
 (I helped save b3ta! Cerebus Sticky! Sticky! Stick! Stick!, Thu 19 Jul 2012, 12:51, Reply)
This is a normal post is there fighting in Jerusalem?
Syria isn't about religion. "Islamism" isn't about religion. It's jingoism in religious garb.

Tell me what Syria is about. If you think the Syrian rebels are fighting for democracy, you've got it backwards. Syria was one of the most secular and Westernised countries in the middle east, most people there support the government, the rebels are Islamists.
 (I helped save b3ta! Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Thu 19 Jul 2012, 12:55, Reply)
This is a normal post "is there fighting in Jerusalem?" Really?
Ok, things may be quieter these past few years but it's still a holy site coveted by all sides.

I bow to your better knowledge of the great democratic state of Syria.
And ignore Assads support of Hezbollah.

Secular does not mean democratic and Religious does not mean dictatorship.
 (I helped save b3ta! Cerebus Sticky! Sticky! Stick! Stick!, Thu 19 Jul 2012, 13:00, Reply)
This is a normal post well I just typed "Jerusalem" into Google news and it didn't come up "fighting".
Who supports who is really besides the point... the United States supports Islamist regimes as well. They're pals with Saudi Arabia, for one.

Secular doesn't mean democratic, this is true. Syria might not be as democratic as we would like, the Ba'ath party is a sort of national socialism so I won't stick up for them.

Religious doesn't mean dictatorship, but Islamist usually does.
 (I helped save b3ta! Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Thu 19 Jul 2012, 13:07, Reply)
This is a normal post Well I certainly can't argue with google results for a single keyword

(I helped save b3ta! Cerebus Sticky! Sticky! Stick! Stick!, Thu 19 Jul 2012, 13:18, Reply)
This is a normal post I'm glad.
Islamists want to completely destroy the State of Israel, of course, but Jerusalem isn't that much of a hot spot by the general standards of the middle East at the moment. It might be a point of annoyance to some people but it's not fundamentally what this is all about. It's about globalisation, which is little more than the privatised continuation of European imperialism.

Certainly nobody is making bombs in London's suburbs in an attempt to take Jerusalem.
 (I helped save b3ta! Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Thu 19 Jul 2012, 13:23, Reply)
This is a normal post Nail on head.

(pissflaps. FSPW, Thu 19 Jul 2012, 13:31, Reply)
This is a normal post Whig nonsense.

(I helped save b3ta! Enzyme is powered by sunlight, Thu 19 Jul 2012, 12:40, Reply)
This is a normal post if you have an alternative explanation, please present it.
I hope it's not going to be "it's because they're Muslims, that's what makes them turn into maniacs".
 (I helped save b3ta! Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Thu 19 Jul 2012, 12:47, Reply)
This is a normal post Nope.
My criticism is of your assumption that history has just one clear path, that the basic difference between different cultures is how far along the path they've travelled, and that it's a matter of some cultures being ahead of, or behind, others. It doesn't, it isn't, and it isn't.
 (I helped save b3ta! Enzyme is powered by sunlight, Thu 19 Jul 2012, 13:20, Reply)
This is a normal post It's not an assumption,
it's what I see, when I look at it. Compare the Islamists to the Puritans, the Islamic states to feudalism, think of the "French Wars of Religion" and the English Civil War, and how it all coincided with the rise of capitalism.

Mohammad's Islamisation of Arabia even looks a bit like Constantine's Christianisation of Europe.

It's an oversimplification, I admit, but the parallels are there.
 (I helped save b3ta! Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Thu 19 Jul 2012, 13:28, Reply)
This is a normal post "Rare earths" is the next oil

(I helped save b3ta! Cerebus Sticky! Sticky! Stick! Stick!, Thu 19 Jul 2012, 12:21, Reply)
This is a normal post oh shit
www.livescience.com/16315-rare-earth-elements-afghanistan.html
now I know what was in those container lorries...
 (I helped save b3ta! Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Thu 19 Jul 2012, 12:22, Reply)
This is a normal post This seems topical
www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-18882996
 (I helped save b3ta! MyFrontFellOff ; his mouth full of teddies, urinating defiantly, Thu 19 Jul 2012, 12:51, Reply)
This is a normal post If you want your green tech then you need lots of "Rare earths".
And currently Chinas got the monopoly on them by a long shot.
 (I helped save b3ta! Cerebus Sticky! Sticky! Stick! Stick!, Thu 19 Jul 2012, 12:55, Reply)
This is a normal post yeah and China's economy is set to overtake that of the US in about 2015
if current trends continue. So we can't go buying the stuff from them.
 (I helped save b3ta! Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Thu 19 Jul 2012, 12:57, Reply)
This is a normal post No we can't keep buying the stuff of them because they keep restricting it's export.

(I helped save b3ta! Cerebus Sticky! Sticky! Stick! Stick!, Thu 19 Jul 2012, 13:02, Reply)
This is a normal post well that's a double whammy.
China is also likely to start poking its nose into the middle East, so then they will hold all the cards.
 (I helped save b3ta! Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Thu 19 Jul 2012, 13:08, Reply)