Composer Karl-Heinz Stockhausen discusses the most beautiful sound he ever heard.
(Here's one of his greatest hits, btw: www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZyFXbb8izM )
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Sea Tramp the thinking woman's 8 Ace, Thu 9 Aug 2012, 18:37,
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That is just brilliant, it's the look on his face that makes it.
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Dawn Of The Bread $$$$ E-THUG 4 LIFE - THAT'S HOW I SCROLL $$$$, Thu 9 Aug 2012, 19:18,
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i was almost set on fire and blown up at a stockhausen event once.
the pyro's came down in the audience.
just reminded me of these guys www.youtube.com/watch?v=jB2C8gmwuZc
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amoebaboy chose for death by unga bunga on, Thu 9 Aug 2012, 19:41,
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I would describe Stockhausen as "What science sounds like."
Unfortunately, it's not that close to what music sounds like.
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Extinct Jesus Dossier "...I think it counteracts Hitler's magic...", Thu 9 Aug 2012, 20:00,
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It depends how you define 'music', which i don't think you can, the definition changes from person to person.
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Dawn Of The Bread $$$$ E-THUG 4 LIFE - THAT'S HOW I SCROLL $$$$, Thu 9 Aug 2012, 20:02,
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Not sure what you're getting at. The dictionary doesn't define what music is, composers, performers and audiences do.
So i dont see how youre going to ever get absolute consensus on what it is or should be. However anyone who thinks Stockhausen isn't music is working to a pretty weird definition - by being one of the most influential composers of the last century, he played a fairly major part in writing the definition. It's just music they don't like / can't be bothered to work for. Where are the tunes? Etc. Which is fine, I don't really see why them not liking it has to be a problem for them or me. I can't be bothered with films that have any depth, but I see no reason to insist they aren't films because they don't have a story.
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Throat And Ice Pie I see dem tatties dere., Thu 9 Aug 2012, 22:31,
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After three years of music degree
I have concluded that there are three kinds of music:
1. Music you listen to (e.g. songs, symphonies, dance pieces)
2. Music you hear in the background (e.g. Muzak, film soundtracks)
3. Music you read about with great interest because of it's originality and innovation, but don't listen to because it lacks aesthetic considerations (e.g. John Cage, Stockhausen, Schoenberg)
A lot of neo-classical music is far more interesting (and bearable) on paper than it is on record.
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Extinct Jesus Dossier "...I think it counteracts Hitler's magic...", Thu 9 Aug 2012, 22:38,
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Ha! Qualification trump!
After 3 years of a music degree AND several years of postgraduate work and letters after my name I mostly disagree. ;) (and find neo-classical stuff insipid and lazy :D)
But let's put it down to just that. My aesthetic considerations are clearly just a bit different from yours. I hear beauty in an Elliott Carter string quartet. It just takes a bit longer to get to it!
Having said that I don't believe post tonal music is in any way more worthy or 'better' than anything else. I find writing in that hyper modernist style really unrewarding. I just think that tonality and even-tempered consonance have convinced Western ears that they are the only way over the years and I don't really buy it.
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Throat And Ice Pie I see dem tatties dere., Thu 9 Aug 2012, 22:53,
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PS I would like to apologise for probably sounding like a massive cunt.
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Throat And Ice Pie I see dem tatties dere., Thu 9 Aug 2012, 22:55,
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Haha! No need to apologise. :D
That last point is a particularly good one, as changing your approach to what "sounds like music" to you is a bit like trying to unlearn basic maths. It's so ingrained.
Had a quick look at Elliott Carter, and I can see what you're getting at. When I first heard Rammstein it was just noise to me and everything sounded the same, now I'm a total fanboy. You have to devote some patience to these kind of things to appreciate what's being done differently each time.
It's nice to find music that surprises you, one of my favourite finds of recent years was these guys, recommended to me by a peculiar Finnish man. No idea if this is your kind of thing, but they caught me off guard.
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Extinct Jesus Dossier "...I think it counteracts Hitler's magic...", Thu 9 Aug 2012, 23:24,
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Hahaha
I have no idea what I just listened to but it caused me great joy.
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Throat And Ice Pie I see dem tatties dere., Thu 9 Aug 2012, 23:29,
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Well at least I did SOMETHING right today...
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Extinct Jesus Dossier "...I think it counteracts Hitler's magic...", Thu 9 Aug 2012, 23:33,
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Luciano Berio defined music as...
"...what one hears with the intention of hearing music."
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mr.dogshit The world's premier anthropomorphic canine faeces, Thu 9 Aug 2012, 22:54,
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Works for me
*wheels out at every available opportunity*
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Throat And Ice Pie I see dem tatties dere., Thu 9 Aug 2012, 22:57,
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Your second link, the piece "Kontakte"
really brings into question what should and should not be considered music.
Music, traditionally (and rightly), has melody, harmony, pitch, rhythm, timbre and things of that ilk. Stockhausen's piece has none of these.
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You're right, it is impossible for anything to evolve.
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Dawn Of The Bread $$$$ E-THUG 4 LIFE - THAT'S HOW I SCROLL $$$$, Thu 9 Aug 2012, 22:06,
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You've never had to listen to John Cage's "Roaratorio" have you?
Music has very much evolved, but a lot of things were tried along the way which were completely unlistenable. Much of Stockhausen's work is very important in terms of technology and technique, but the audible results were pretty horrible.
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Extinct Jesus Dossier "...I think it counteracts Hitler's magic...", Thu 9 Aug 2012, 22:32,
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Unlistenable and horrible by what measure?
I'm not claiming by any means the Stockhausen is the greatest composer ever and I listen to him on the way to work every day, but so much wooly nonsense about what music should be gets bandied about. Yes you have to work harder to get something out of music that's outside your usual listening idiom. If you don't want to don't, but nothing is unlistenable.
Sorry I'm not having a go, I know this is all beard stroking nonsense really and probably agree with you for the most part. It just annoys me how safe, pedestrian and tame 99.999% of music is. Such that metal, punk and dubstep are considered extreme. Terrifying really.
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Throat And Ice Pie I see dem tatties dere., Thu 9 Aug 2012, 22:44,
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It has every single one of those things from the opening second
Try harder.
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Throat And Ice Pie I see dem tatties dere., Thu 9 Aug 2012, 22:35,
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It does!
Although, for example, the time signatures are constantly shifting and bear little resemblance to much else you'll hear from before KHS' time.
One of his Klavierstücke, for example, will touch 142/8 fleetingly, before eventually wheeling round to do it again.
I find Kontakte hugely enjoyable nowadays, although I couldn't sit through the whole thing back in my 20s without hallucinogens.
Pre-electronic microtonal composers are worth a listen. There's an old BBC documentary about Harry Partch on youtube, and he has the most remarkable tale to tell. (Part 1: www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cKnTj2cyNQ)
Enjoyable debate, btw, based on such a small stimulus!
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Sea Tramp the thinking woman's 8 Ace, Thu 9 Aug 2012, 23:44,
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