CBT
CBT is by far and away the best therapy, especially for panic attacks. I was lucky enough to get it through occupational health, but there are (very limited) places via the NHS. Really did wonders for my panic attacks, but you have to put the effort in.

Other than that, diaphragmatic breathing is awesome (basically, breathe into your diaphragm, not the top of your lungs, four seconds in, four seconds out - takes practice).

For when you're actually in the throes of a panic attack, Dr. Fishfinger's advice is just about the best you can give: breathing exercises, self reassurance, telling your panic to fuck off. Again, with practice and a little self belief, you really can improve your experience of anxiety.
(leviticus no longer likes the cut of your gib on, Mon 25 Jul 2011, 16:06, 2 replies)

Ta
Shall give that breathing thing a whirl tonight, and am atm telling myself to 'fuck off' and 'get a fucking grip' when I feel it starting although sometimes I get thrown off the night bus....

(not true)
(robneymcplum spiced up his life on, Mon 25 Jul 2011, 16:24, closed)

Don't be so hard on yourself - your judgement of yourself for being anxious is part of the problem
Look at this: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_distortion

I was shown this list in CBT - it's a list of common cognitive distortions that most people have, distortions that make you judge yourself too harshly. Have a look and see if you identify with any of them (spoiler: you totally will).
(leviticus no longer likes the cut of your gib on, Mon 25 Jul 2011, 16:35, closed)

It's the panic attack you tell to fuck off, not yourself

( Ring Of Fire A petty, drooling belming butthurt retard., Mon 25 Jul 2011, 19:28, closed)

the best thing about CBT is that psychoanalysts hate it
so it must be a useful treatment then.
( Ring Of Fire A petty, drooling belming butthurt retard., Mon 25 Jul 2011, 16:25, closed)

Yup.
And it has a stronger evidence base than any other talking therapy. And it's not full of bullshit.
(leviticus no longer likes the cut of your gib on, Mon 25 Jul 2011, 16:36, closed)

shame that the tories just cut the funding
and are opening up the whole talking therapies area to private providers. 'Cos its all about 'choice', ain't it? You have the choice to choose a much less effective form of therapy, provided by a company driven only by profit. Nice one tories.
(leviticus no longer likes the cut of your gib on, Mon 25 Jul 2011, 16:40, closed)

Exactly the reason homeopathy shouldn't be offered on the NHS

(Stiltzkin, Mon 25 Jul 2011, 20:08, closed)

homeopathy is way more than "much less effective"
or should that be way less?

either way, it's a load of fucking bollocks
( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Mon 25 Jul 2011, 21:24, closed)

placebos are effective
as long as you're thick enough to believe in them.

This makes me wonder - you know how occasionally doctors are caught sexually molesting patients and convincing them that it's part of the treatment?

Well surely that's equally as effective as homeopathy.

Probably shouldn't have said that. Somebody might jump on this idea and open a clinic.
(leviticus no longer likes the cut of your gib on, Tue 26 Jul 2011, 8:18, closed)

I think the real problems start
when people start choosing homeopathic treatments for cancer instead of chemotherapy, becuase they believe it's somehow more effective (because hopeopaths tell them so).

Using placebo for a malignant tumor is like farting against a hurricane to see if you can stop your house being blown down.

The point is that they are con artists and massive twats.
(Stiltzkin, Tue 26 Jul 2011, 8:58, closed)

you're totally right of course
I work for the NHS, and I'm totally sickened by the amount of GPs who provide expensive homeopathic treatments out-of-hours in their surgeries. (As if they need any more money.)

I'm not one of those who thinks that this sort of thing is just "a self administered tax on the scientifically illiterate" (Ben Goldacre's line). It's not surprising that people are confused about homeopathy when GPs themselves are using NHS surgeries as fronts for this kind of exploitation.

A lot of these GPs really do believe in it, but really that's even less defensible than just being exploitative bastards. Ignorantia juris non excusat, after all.
(leviticus no longer likes the cut of your gib on, Tue 26 Jul 2011, 9:19, closed)

There is a time and a place for homeopathy.

Hear me out, before you say anything..

Yes, it is a placebo effect. That is how it works. The idea is to trick your body into healing itself; the "medications" used are not medications, they are sugar water and whatever other placebos. That is the point. It will most often not work because in your mind you know it is a placebo. However, I do have a homeopathy success story:

When I was a child I was plagued by frequent, painful mouth ulcers and cold sores. As you might know, this is not curable. It can be treated on a regular basis with aciclovir, but it only brings the symptoms down, it does not prevent any future outbreaks. Enter sugar pills, that I was told to leave under my tongue, and after that I could not have licorice or mint for the next 6 months (what this had to do with anything I do not know, probably just BS to make it sound authentic). And it worked. The cold sores stopped developing.
It worked partly because I thought it would, and partly therefore, as a result of me thinking it would go away, bringing my stress levels down, which reduces the chance of outbreaks.

It is stuff like this that homeopathy is made for. No sane human being would (I would hope) suggest it for serious things that would otherwise require surgery or other such procedures.

Just my two cents/pence
(tyrellsOwl, Tue 26 Jul 2011, 12:40, closed)

I agree that the placebo effect should be put to use in medicine
But wouldn't it be better if we harnessed the power of the placebo without:
a) telling people that conventional medicine is 'toxic' and 'dangerous'
b) intentionally confusing people about science and muddying the waters of evidence
c) making people doubt the idea of evidence based science altogether
d) having this bizarre Christian/ritualistic belief underlying the whole thing

Surely something like this: www.boingboing.net/2008/05/29/placebo-pills-made-f.html is a lot better than any anti-enlightenment snake oil claptrap.
(leviticus no longer likes the cut of your gib on, Tue 26 Jul 2011, 12:53, closed)

Agreed on all points.

I think this depends on the person you are seeing.
I was too young to really remember the guy at all, but my parents are highly rational people who take the word of science over anything unsubstantiated, so I doubt he tried to push any of this nonsense on them.
(tyrellsOwl, Tue 26 Jul 2011, 13:14, closed)

In Ben Goldacre's book...
He talks about a time (before 1910, if I remember correctly) when doctors could legally use placebos on patients, and were under no obligation to inform them of the truth. I think this was a better system. The whole idea of patient choice is bullshit anyway - doctors are experts, and as anyone here who has been discussing anxiety attacks can tell you, your own opinion on your own health is practically worthless because it is so easily distorted. The more choices you have, the more likely it is that you'll make the wrong choice.

I'm sure every GP has wished he could just give a sugar pill or a saltwater injection to every hypochondriac, stress-head etc. (even people with ulcers, sores, and many of the other illnesses which amazingly benefit from the placebo effect).

It's easier with kids though, because parents can give consent. And most parents are quite used to lying to kids to make them feel better anyway.

The experience you describe actually sounds great (I love the flourishes - no mint or licorice - awesome). I just wish this was on the NHS, and part of evidence based practice rather than hokey homeopathy.
(leviticus no longer likes the cut of your gib on, Tue 26 Jul 2011, 14:01, closed)

Some great valid points in the posts above
I have read Ben Goldacre's book, it's a great book.

RE tyrellsOwl's story - Aside from placebo, there is also a tendancy that people have which is to take a treatment whilst ill, and once the symptoms disappear to assume that the pill you have taken or the tiger penis you have strapped to your head has cured whatever it was.

The truth is often that illness just clears up by itself. From the way you describe it, it sounds like this may have happened. The placebo may have helped. However, if you know it's a sugar pill it will do nothing, unless you truly believe in the healing power of Snickers™.

The power of placebo is moderate against certain illnesses and conditions, but unfortunately homeopathy in general is a hard sell bullshit organisation which causes people to deprive themselves of effective treatment. It should be *banned*.

I like the point about doctors being able to prescribe placebo, however. This may be appropriate for some patients, but there are ethical concerns.
(Stiltzkin, Tue 26 Jul 2011, 16:25, closed)

I hear Dr. Goldacre is writing a new book
about epdemiology. I'm really looking forward to it, and it's the best and most acceptable reason why he hasn't updated his website much lately.

I'd like to see homeopathy banned, or at least forced to carry a disclaimer, but whenever I express views like this I can't help but feel I've fallen in the trap of the right wing pundits who accuse the left of state interventionism, curtailing freedoms and nannying the public. Which is all true, I guess, but not necessarily a bad thing!
(leviticus no longer likes the cut of your gib on, Wed 27 Jul 2011, 12:27, closed)

Well, it did clear up by itself, because sugar pills sure didnt do it!

However, it was made better by the experience. Like I said, it was reocurring for years, very severely, until the homeopathy treatment, after which I would not even break out at all for months.
(tyrellsOwl, Wed 27 Jul 2011, 13:06, closed)