nope
did you?
( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Tue 14 Jun 2011, 14:01, 1 reply, 15 years ago)

yeah, it was interesting, a little biased as it only followed those wanting to take their lives
The chap who they filmed drinking the poison with his wife holding his hand was truely heartbreaking.
( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Tue 14 Jun 2011, 14:03, Reply)

I cried.
His wife was so dignified.

In hindsight, I probably shouldn't have watched it with my very seriously ill husband.
( b3th Not shit. Not mod., Tue 14 Jun 2011, 14:04, Reply)

I have to say it brought a tear to my eye, they were so quiet and polite and dignified
Best of luck to you and Mr.B3th I hope he gets better/feels better
( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Tue 14 Jun 2011, 14:06, Reply)

Unfortunately he isn't going to get better : (
but as he mostly enjoys bitching and moaning about stuff, he's happy-ish.
( b3th Not shit. Not mod., Tue 14 Jun 2011, 14:07, Reply)

I'm very sorry to here that :(

( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Tue 14 Jun 2011, 14:13, Reply)

*mwah*
thank you NAS
( b3th Not shit. Not mod., Tue 14 Jun 2011, 14:16, Reply)

Especially not while nudging him and suggesting a trip to Switzerland.

( Agnostic Antichrist Baltimora, Tue 14 Jun 2011, 14:06, Reply)

It's something he's been talking about ever since Dignitas came into the public eye.
I don't think he'd actually do it, but until it gets to that stage, you never know what might happen.
( b3th Not shit. Not mod., Tue 14 Jun 2011, 14:09, Reply)

It's the sort of decision I don't think I'd ever be able to make

( Agnostic Antichrist Baltimora, Tue 14 Jun 2011, 14:11, Reply)

that's because you aren't in a position where it is a reasonable choice
which is my point. Until you've been there you just don't know, so everyone who is against it should shut the fuck up.
( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Tue 14 Jun 2011, 14:13, Reply)

I agree on the opponents shutting the fuck up, most definitely.

( Agnostic Antichrist Baltimora, Tue 14 Jun 2011, 14:15, Reply)

Because that's a reasonable stance to take
you are aware that there are gravely ill people who DON'T think euthanasia is an acceptable outcome in society? Should they just shut the fuck up as well, or not be allowed to have advocates?
( Amberl was stripey and dominated Europe, Tue 14 Jun 2011, 14:32, Reply)

it depends on their reasons for it I guess
have you got any examples of the sort of reasons?
( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Tue 14 Jun 2011, 14:35, Reply)

There is an awful sweeping generalization
that because people can't imagine being in a situation, that it must be worse than death. People fight to stay alive. You can fly to Switzerland and end it, or you can kill yourself before you are unable, but try and have some thought for the abuses of the system before you implement it here. As Kroney said, would you really want the power of life and death in the hands of those carehome workers? Because that's where it'll end up.
( Amberl was stripey and dominated Europe, Tue 14 Jun 2011, 14:40, Reply)

I was thinking more along the lines of the right to make the choice
rather than the practicalities of it

I wasn't saying that if you can't imagine it that it must be worse than death at all. I was saying that if you haven't been through it then you can't know what it would be like to have to make the choice.
( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Tue 14 Jun 2011, 14:42, Reply)

to be honest
I think that people who don't want to end their lives should have no say in it. It's their choice to end themselves, and without being terminally ill or losing your faculties etc. or being extremely close to someone who has, there is no way that you could ever possibly understand the mindset.

Fuck the sanctity of life, there comes a point when dignity is all that is left and it's bordering on criminal to take that away from people if there's another option that they might want to take.
( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Tue 14 Jun 2011, 14:06, Reply)

It's sort of like playing chicken
You have to judge when to do it. Not so early that it's a waste of what time you have left, but not leaving it so late that the choice is taken away from you.
( b3th Not shit. Not mod., Tue 14 Jun 2011, 14:08, Reply)

it's not going to be an easy decision for sure.
but it should be one that is legal to make. I can't think of any argument against it that isn't bullshit.
( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Tue 14 Jun 2011, 14:11, Reply)

I think the biggest argument is
that the RSPCA would prosecute you if your dog needed to be put down and you didn't do it, but with people it's the other way around.
( b3th Not shit. Not mod., Tue 14 Jun 2011, 14:12, Reply)

is that an argument for or against?

( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Tue 14 Jun 2011, 14:14, Reply)

For
It's crazy that we can't afford humans the basic right to a dignified death that we insist on for animals.

It's madness, I tell you! Madness!
( b3th Not shit. Not mod., Tue 14 Jun 2011, 14:15, Reply)

We always seem to go One Step Beyond for animals.

( Agnostic Antichrist Baltimora, Tue 14 Jun 2011, 14:16, Reply)

Shut Up why don't you?

(Reverend Fister "a disciplined fuckwit", Tue 14 Jun 2011, 14:19, Reply)

You're just an Embarrassment.

( Agnostic Antichrist Baltimora, Tue 14 Jun 2011, 14:25, Reply)

No, but my Uncle Sam is.

(Reverend Fister "a disciplined fuckwit", Tue 14 Jun 2011, 14:43, Reply)

On the Night Boat To Cairo?

( Agnostic Antichrist Baltimora, Tue 14 Jun 2011, 14:46, Reply)

I await The Return Of The Los Palmos 7
Then you'll learn.
(Reverend Fister "a disciplined fuckwit", Tue 14 Jun 2011, 15:00, Reply)

Ah well, Tomorrow's Just Another Day

( Agnostic Antichrist Baltimora, Tue 14 Jun 2011, 15:15, Reply)

When I had to put my last dog to sleep
she shat on the vet as she went under. Dignity and a bit of revenge.
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Tue 14 Jun 2011, 14:17, Reply)

My baby's eight this month
and startingto stiffen up. I'm really dreading the day we have to take him that one last time.
( b3th Not shit. Not mod., Tue 14 Jun 2011, 14:18, Reply)

yeah.
Mine had been beaten solidy for 8 years and fed shit by her weegie cunt of a previous owner before I got her. I knew her liver and kidneys were fucked from her diet but we managed to give her a good year. Still hurts, though.
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Tue 14 Jun 2011, 14:23, Reply)

Hahaha

( Agnostic Antichrist Baltimora, Tue 14 Jun 2011, 14:19, Reply)

the arguments against can only really have their basis in religion
which makes them even more repugnant.
( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Tue 14 Jun 2011, 14:18, Reply)

It's not repugnant to hold the view or point of argument
only to try and loudly and publicly force it onto someone else.
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Tue 14 Jun 2011, 14:19, Reply)

I was thinking more along the lines of actual arguing
rather than it being their argument. If you see what I mean.
( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Tue 14 Jun 2011, 14:21, Reply)

This isn't true. There are arguments against with regards to protecting people,
however these should be manifested in stricht controls, not an outright ban.
( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Tue 14 Jun 2011, 14:20, Reply)

I was being a bit sweeping
morally what someone chooses to do to themselves in that respect is no one's business but their own.
( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Tue 14 Jun 2011, 14:24, Reply)

What he said ^^^
My dad died of cancer about 10 years ago.

I remember going to visit him once in hospital and he was in severe pain. He told me that if I was given the choice by the doctors to 'bring things to an end' then I was to take it without hesitation. I would have done it myself if I could have, such was his suffering. He lasted for a couple of months after that, but had absolutely no quality of life.

Any rational person who is against the idea has clearly never known anyone in the situation.
(Reverend Fister "a disciplined fuckwit", Tue 14 Jun 2011, 14:24, Reply)

Part of the problem is that there may be doubt over who made the decision.
The rather poorly person or the money grabbing relative.
( Bartleby A dead man on vacation, Tue 14 Jun 2011, 14:21, Reply)

I don't consider myself a money-grabbing relative
but will fully support mr b3th if he decides that's what he has to do.

The documentary showed that they ask about a million times whether the person is making this decision freely; there is a bunch of paperwork; and the act of drinkingthe poison is videod to prove it was the peron themself who chose to drink it.
( b3th Not shit. Not mod., Tue 14 Jun 2011, 14:25, Reply)

and that's how it should be
I'm not saying you should just be able to make a snap decision and do it, but that it should be an option because they are the one who will suffer, not anyone else, and once the protecting people aspect is out of the way and other such things that can be relatively easily dealt with, what can the other objections be?
( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Tue 14 Jun 2011, 14:27, Reply)

There is still a risk that someone has been coerced
Imagine a british privatised top yourself service. Perhaps run by one of the care home companies.

Still feeling safe?
( Bartleby A dead man on vacation, Tue 14 Jun 2011, 14:28, Reply)

fuck no
keep it in switzerland. if they get trusted with fuck loads of gold then I'd trust them with my life/death
( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Tue 14 Jun 2011, 14:29, Reply)

I agree with you there, but if we change the law here, it will be done here.

( Bartleby A dead man on vacation, Tue 14 Jun 2011, 14:30, Reply)

So we should pay
for terminally ill people to fly to Switzerland to take their life? The government won't do that. It'll be homegrown or not at all
( Amberl was stripey and dominated Europe, Tue 14 Jun 2011, 14:35, Reply)

my reply was flippant.
medical professionals would be better equipped to deal with than the sort of management types at care homes that Bartleby refers to. Naturally it'd be the choice of the person involved whether they took part or not.
( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Tue 14 Jun 2011, 14:37, Reply)

How would it work if your flight to Switzerland was delayed.
Would you be able to claim compensation from the airline, or would the airline be able to claim compensation from the person who is travelling out there to die as they've kept them alive a bit longer.
( JeffTheDogFucker Can you dig it?, Tue 14 Jun 2011, 14:38, Reply)

however
I suspect that flying someone to Switzerland is cheaper than the additional care they might require if they weren't allowed to bump themselves off
( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Tue 14 Jun 2011, 14:40, Reply)

So we should measure care on cheapness

( Amberl was stripey and dominated Europe, Tue 14 Jun 2011, 14:42, Reply)

you brought up cost
not me.
( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Tue 14 Jun 2011, 14:43, Reply)

No I brought up the moral implications
of our government flying terminally ill people to another country for death, and concluded they would homegrow it
( Amberl was stripey and dominated Europe, Tue 14 Jun 2011, 14:47, Reply)

the fundamental problem is that most people are stupid and/or cunts.
same with every issue
( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Tue 14 Jun 2011, 14:49, Reply)