Part of the make up of humans.
Hard wired into us, having no faith is either a relativley abnormal state of mind which is a very recent evolutionary change. Or it's a product of our education system.
(PsychoChomp, Thu 28 Feb 2013, 11:34, 1 reply, 12 years ago)

it's hardly biological is it
If you had an island of people where, no religion was ever taught, and extensional questions were answered with scientific reasoning, then no religion would form.

"there is no such thing as a Christian child, only a child with Christian parents"
( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Thu 28 Feb 2013, 11:36, Reply)

What?

( tangledupinblue hairy badge with moving eyes, Thu 28 Feb 2013, 11:38, Reply)

Every tribal society cut off from the rest of the world for generations has proto religious myths.
Creation myths, after life etc. And yes it's biological, and neurological.
(PsychoChomp, Thu 28 Feb 2013, 11:38, Reply)

Tribal society. I'm suggesting we section off a group of people with modern scientific knowledge, not a "primitive" tribe

( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Thu 28 Feb 2013, 11:40, Reply)

Yes, well as great as that suggestion is, I don't really see what you're getting at.

(PsychoChomp, Thu 28 Feb 2013, 11:42, Reply)

He is saying that religion is a way of explaining the seemingly inexplicable
and if you isolated people with no background bias and taught them science, the need for religion wouldn't appear.

I don't see why that's so hard to understand, it's perfectly logical.
( Kroney, Thu 28 Feb 2013, 11:45, Reply)

THANK YOU
obviously this is not fool proof, but it would vb interesting
( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Thu 28 Feb 2013, 11:47, Reply)

But he says it in response to my original point
which was, it's hard wired, having no religion is relativley rare and either something that is being dropped through natural selection OR because we have modern education and scientific method to get round our innate need to answer the inanswerable.

His argument seems to be No you're wrong because: "we have modern education and scientific method to get round our innate need to answer the inanswerable YOU SPASTIC"
(PsychoChomp, Thu 28 Feb 2013, 11:48, Reply)

You seem to be saying that religion is in the nature of man
whereas what I think you mean is that the need for explanations is.
( Kroney, Thu 28 Feb 2013, 11:50, Reply)

I was pointing out that it clearly isn't hardwired, no one bilogically inherits a religeous belief
they may inherit it from their parents and surroundings, but they are not born with it. Hence the idea that if you remove all traces of religion then a society could form with out it.
( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Thu 28 Feb 2013, 11:51, Reply)

None ever have though.

( tangledupinblue hairy badge with moving eyes, Thu 28 Feb 2013, 11:54, Reply)

Because they need to know the answers
not having access to the real answers, they make up stories. That is how all religions form.
( Kroney, Thu 28 Feb 2013, 11:55, Reply)

There's always more questions

(PsychoChomp, Thu 28 Feb 2013, 11:58, Reply)

Can't argue there
but if you're brought up to look for scientific answers, then those are the answers you'll seek.
( Kroney, Thu 28 Feb 2013, 11:59, Reply)

Of course, but far more have now been answered than at any point in human history
the chances of a Jesus figure occurring in the 21st century are slim to none, for exactly this reason.
( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Thu 28 Feb 2013, 12:02, Reply)

There's nothing clear about it either way.
It's a hugley contentious thing to research. But there's pretty decent evidence and theories that it is innate and instictual and that it gave a competitive advantage and was thus evolved. religion.blogs.cnn.com/2011/05/12/religious-belief-is-human-nature-huge-new-study-claims/
www.amazon.com/Faith-Instinct-Religion-Evolved-Endures/dp/B003B3NVZY
(PsychoChomp, Thu 28 Feb 2013, 11:57, Reply)

Problem is everyone has been tainted with religious belief i their lifetime, you'd need a control
the island of non-religion mentioned earlier, to truly investigate this argument.
( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Thu 28 Feb 2013, 12:03, Reply)

But the people on the Island would have to never speak to another human?

(PsychoChomp, Thu 28 Feb 2013, 12:06, Reply)

exactly, they are separated away from the rest of humanity and it's religious pressures and history
this would probably have to be more of a thought experiment than one that could be implemented
( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Thu 28 Feb 2013, 12:10, Reply)

You're proposing an untestable theory?
How VERY SCIENTIFIC
(PsychoChomp, Thu 28 Feb 2013, 12:15, Reply)

well it could be done, but it'd be a pain
in the same way it was a pain to build the LHC.

I don't have the funds at the moment to run this I'm afraid.
( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Thu 28 Feb 2013, 12:18, Reply)

Just kidnap a load of kids from the local primary school.

( tangledupinblue hairy badge with moving eyes, Thu 28 Feb 2013, 12:21, Reply)

Ok, I'll try and put it simply for you
I'm suggesting a group of people isolated from all religious knowledge and text, that form a society based on science, where existential issues are answered with facts and theories, not stories. Would not create a religion for it's self.

Religions sprung up to answer fundamental questions about human existence and were manipulated for political gain; we can now answer many of those questions thus there is no need for religion. An isolated group of people with this point of view and without the weight of religious history upon them would most likely not create a new religion as they would have no need for it.
( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Thu 28 Feb 2013, 11:47, Reply)

So what is the scientific explanation for why we are here?

( tangledupinblue hairy badge with moving eyes, Thu 28 Feb 2013, 11:51, Reply)

The incredibly lucky consequence of a incredibly unlikely string of incredible evolutionary coincidences
I don't see how that makes us less special than "some ineffable being wanted some monkeys to worship him".

Rather the opposite, in fact.
( Kroney, Thu 28 Feb 2013, 11:52, Reply)

Why, not how.

( tangledupinblue hairy badge with moving eyes, Thu 28 Feb 2013, 11:54, Reply)

"Why" and "how" are not mutually exclusive questions.

( Kroney, Thu 28 Feb 2013, 11:55, Reply)

No, they are usually tied together in religions.

( tangledupinblue hairy badge with moving eyes, Thu 28 Feb 2013, 11:59, Reply)

They're tied together in my answer above. It answers both "why" and "how"
Which is what I meant by not mutually exclusive.
( Kroney, Thu 28 Feb 2013, 12:02, Reply)

There are as many holes in that explanation as there are in the Garden of Eden story.

(PsychoChomp, Thu 28 Feb 2013, 12:02, Reply)

I'm lost by this

( sporters I’m sincerely gratitude to you, Thu 28 Feb 2013, 12:04, Reply)

Well big question for the christian creation myth "what was there before God?"
Has a direct equivilent of "What was before the big bang"
(PsychoChomp, Thu 28 Feb 2013, 12:08, Reply)

JOKE











Your head
( sporters I’m sincerely gratitude to you, Thu 28 Feb 2013, 12:16, Reply)

look you're tolling and that's fine.
but you know as well as we know, that while there may be holes in the scientific explanation for life, the universe etc scientists except the holes exist actively look to fill those holes with new knowledge and understanding.

religion says, "we don't know something therefore it was supernatural" which is igorant and lazy
( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Thu 28 Feb 2013, 12:07, Reply)

I'm not trolling.
Obviously I know that, but saying people won't turn to religion because they'll have a foundation in science to answer their questions. When there's a number of questions that either can not, or have not been answered by Science and you think your Island children will not fill in the blanks themselves?
(PsychoChomp, Thu 28 Feb 2013, 12:12, Reply)

I think they'll be too busy getting fucked on the local hallucinogens.

( tangledupinblue hairy badge with moving eyes, Thu 28 Feb 2013, 12:16, Reply)

not if you teach them that the blanks may one day be filled
in the same way that people 2000 years ago didn't understand disease (god is displeased), the universe (god made it from papier mache)or even how our bodies work(God does magik in my tummy)then in 2000 years maybe we will know what came before the big bang.

just becasue we don't know something, doesn't mean we never will
( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Thu 28 Feb 2013, 12:17, Reply)

Just because one doesn't exist, doesn't mean it won't exist and that knowledge gap should not be auto-filled by the supernatural
also, i would counter and say, why does there need to be a reason?
( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Thu 28 Feb 2013, 11:52, Reply)

In your original post you referred to 'extensional* questions'
Natural curiosity, that's why.


*I assumed you meant 'existential'
( tangledupinblue hairy badge with moving eyes, Thu 28 Feb 2013, 11:58, Reply)

you know what i mean by now...
Just because the question exists, doesn't mean that there is necessarily an answer.

It's a bit nihilistic, but there you go.
( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Thu 28 Feb 2013, 12:00, Reply)

And entheogenical.

( tangledupinblue hairy badge with moving eyes, Thu 28 Feb 2013, 11:41, Reply)

that's cheating

( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Thu 28 Feb 2013, 11:42, Reply)

Often, there's also a number of types of epilepsy brain injurys and disorders that cause deeply religious feeling

(PsychoChomp, Thu 28 Feb 2013, 11:43, Reply)

My deeply religious feelings cause me to inflict serious brain injuries

( sporters I’m sincerely gratitude to you, Thu 28 Feb 2013, 11:45, Reply)

Nonsense.
My evidence: the history of the human race
( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Thu 28 Feb 2013, 11:57, Reply)

See also: Every society ever.

(PsychoChomp, Thu 28 Feb 2013, 11:59, Reply)