HAPPY BIRTHDAY SWIPE.
I had a great weekend with my brother and my dad, celebrating my brother getting his MA.

My dad is a fucking liability - he'll chat to anything in a skirt, and by the time we got to the restaurant after having spent the afternoon in the pub, instructed us loudly that "I think I'm ready to start singing, now!"

Thankfully I managed to shut him down on that this time.

TV adverts are great - particularly when discussed with left-wing students.
( Je suis un vagabond is an unfunny, up your own arse middle class knob, Mon 11 Nov 2013, 10:07, 1 reply, 12 years ago)

Are students particularly grumpy about adverts?

( Windy Pig I'm naturally quite suspicious about the moon., Mon 11 Nov 2013, 10:10, Reply)

The ones I hung about with were.
Capitalism?! CRAPitalism, more like! Adverts are symptomatic of the cultural hegemony that keeps the working classes repressed and unquestioning. Hey - can I borrow a couple of quid to make up enough to buy an eighth?"
( Je suis un vagabond is an unfunny, up your own arse middle class knob, Mon 11 Nov 2013, 10:12, Reply)

That sort of student is almost never working class themselves.
Still, it's nice of them to spend their inheritance/grants gained from their parents'/the public's devotion to the same cultural hegemony they're decrying in the pub in order to lecture the uninterested about the rights of people that think they're lazy, work-shy pricks.
( Kroney, Mon 11 Nov 2013, 10:19, Reply)

I think that anyone who has to work for a living is working class.
So students are generally a bit of a Schrodinger's cat there - not working because they don't have to at university, but they will do when they get out.
( Je suis un vagabond is an unfunny, up your own arse middle class knob, Mon 11 Nov 2013, 10:22, Reply)

The middle class have to work for a living, too. So do the upper class, frequently.
It's the type of job you have along with your family's social history that determines your class.
( Kroney, Mon 11 Nov 2013, 10:24, Reply)

See, I'm not sure I agree.
I think the "Middle" class are also working class, due to them having to work.

I'd say class was defined by disposable income.

Although if anything the concept of class is merely bigotry fed to the prolitariat to keep them fighting among themselves.
( Je suis un vagabond is an unfunny, up your own arse middle class knob, Mon 11 Nov 2013, 10:34, Reply)

What?
Surely the middle class are generally office or at least intelligence based, where the working class, although often highly skilled are more in the manual labour category?
Although I'm from an intensely middle class family, yet both me and my brother have taken fairly manual jobs. Its not clear cut as you say, but there is a definite distinction between working and middle.
I think the line is more blurry middle to upper. At what staley point do you jump the ship and move on up?
( Windy Pig I'm naturally quite suspicious about the moon., Mon 11 Nov 2013, 10:40, Reply)

Isn't it more to do with how you refer to your evening meal and whether you have a lock on the loo door?

( tangledupinblue hairy badge with moving eyes, Mon 11 Nov 2013, 10:46, Reply)

Well I don't know. There aren't any hard and fast rules or laws.
Hence my speculating that it's actually just a divisive concept fed to keep people fighting amongst themselves due to snobbery.

I've never quite understood why class is so important to some people's self-identity, or why people are judged on it.

I just figured that to my - admittedly little - mind - if one were to make distinctions, doing it on a financial assessment would be easier than by something as intangible as job type - an artist has a very manual job, but often being such is associated with being middle class, and I have never met a working plumber that's poor.
( Je suis un vagabond is an unfunny, up your own arse middle class knob, Mon 11 Nov 2013, 10:47, Reply)

Fair enough, but there does seem to be a cultural distinction,
Like you say, a plumber is rarely poor, but does he spend his money the same as a similarly earning artist or office clerk or so on?
( Windy Pig I'm naturally quite suspicious about the moon., Mon 11 Nov 2013, 10:55, Reply)

Well what he spends his money on - that's where we get back into snobbery, isn't it?
If a plumber buys a coffee percolator and prefers a light salmon salad with a mint & pea puree and artisan bread instead of a full English, is he working class, middle class, or just in need of a good shoeing?
( Je suis un vagabond is an unfunny, up your own arse middle class knob, Mon 11 Nov 2013, 10:57, Reply)

Class is traditionally defined as working class = manual/trade work
and middle class = professional/clerical.

Since it's only a social tradition in the first place, I reckon that'll do.
( Kroney, Mon 11 Nov 2013, 11:01, Reply)

I Will settle with kroney on this i reckon.I
It's not that important to me either.
( Windy Pig I'm naturally quite suspicious about the moon., Mon 11 Nov 2013, 11:03, Reply)

You're a gentleman electrician.
You should put this on your van and turn up to jobs wearing a monocle.
( Kroney, Mon 11 Nov 2013, 11:11, Reply)

This I really like.
"Gosh, madam - what Ceboidea installed THIS device? The parameters of its setting are barely cognisant!"
( Je suis un vagabond is an unfunny, up your own arse middle class knob, Mon 11 Nov 2013, 11:13, Reply)

Ah, the apostrophe. It will always betray the grammatically upwardly mobile.

( Kroney, Mon 11 Nov 2013, 11:16, Reply)

Gah.

( Je suis un vagabond is an unfunny, up your own arse middle class knob, Mon 11 Nov 2013, 11:21, Reply)

What if your trade is as a clerical professional? Pffft.
But yes - I largely agree.

Basically I don't like to associate with anyone who gets their hands dirty for a living, as they're a bit common.
( Je suis un vagabond is an unfunny, up your own arse middle class knob, Mon 11 Nov 2013, 11:06, Reply)

If your work is clerical professional, it isn't a trade by definition.

( Kroney, Mon 11 Nov 2013, 11:07, Reply)

Solicitors, lawyers - these are clerical jobs. Administrators, too.
I see your point - I'm just mocking how completely arbitrary the boundaries are.
( Je suis un vagabond is an unfunny, up your own arse middle class knob, Mon 11 Nov 2013, 11:11, Reply)

EXCUSE ME
clerical, my fucking arse.
( rachelswipe with a fork, Mon 11 Nov 2013, 11:13, Reply)

It's just being able to read quite well, and be good at filing.

( Je suis un vagabond is an unfunny, up your own arse middle class knob, Mon 11 Nov 2013, 11:14, Reply)

it's like being a fish
the bait and the urge to rise to it are irresistible.............
( rachelswipe with a fork, Mon 11 Nov 2013, 11:16, Reply)

They're professions, not trades.
It's not really that arbitrary, you work with your hands, it's a trade. Though why it's been decided that trades are working class and professions are not, I don't know. It doesn't seem terribly applicable anymore as you have to sit through qualifications to check a boiler just as you have to sit through qualifications to effect a civil law suit.

Still, there it is. I'm just pointing out what the boundaries are, not commenting on their relevance.
( Kroney, Mon 11 Nov 2013, 11:14, Reply)

So a surgeon's a tradesman?
Or a pilot?
( Je suis un vagabond is an unfunny, up your own arse middle class knob, Mon 11 Nov 2013, 11:16, Reply)

You're not going to knock down any social boundaries by splitting hairs, you know.

( Kroney, Mon 11 Nov 2013, 11:17, Reply)

Hahaha

( Je suis un vagabond is an unfunny, up your own arse middle class knob, Mon 11 Nov 2013, 11:20, Reply)

yeah
that would make you a barber. tres working class.
( rachelswipe with a fork, Mon 11 Nov 2013, 11:32, Reply)

"Trays"

( Je suis un vagabond is an unfunny, up your own arse middle class knob, Mon 11 Nov 2013, 11:35, Reply)

No, she washes hair

( sporters I’m sincerely gratitude to you, Mon 11 Nov 2013, 11:38, Reply)

He's an idiot - what kid of breakfast is that?

( tangledupinblue hairy badge with moving eyes, Mon 11 Nov 2013, 11:01, Reply)

Well - quite.

( Je suis un vagabond is an unfunny, up your own arse middle class knob, Mon 11 Nov 2013, 11:13, Reply)