Looking at doing some recording
Any opinions on this:
www.dolphinmusic.co.uk/shop/flypage/product_id/8692

To be honest, I don't fully understand this side of it, I just write and play the songs...
But I know there're a good few music-folks out there who'd be able to help.
( Cawl, Thu 13 Nov 2008, 12:12, 37 replies, latest was 16 years ago)

Person whose name escapes me at the moment will be better placed to help
but for what it's worth: Korg stuff is generally pretty good, and if you are looking at doing some recording without getting a pro involved then as far as I'm concerned, the simpler the better and the higher quality the audio the better.

liking your sig by the way
( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Thu 13 Nov 2008, 12:20, Reply)

They're alright, if you want something simple
*puts sound engineer hat on*

But doing it on a computer is so much more powerful and will give you a lot more options...

And you seem like a clever chap so you'll probably be able to figure it out.

Have you got a half decent laptop/desktop? And how many inputs do you reckon you'll need to record simultaneously?
(Son of Sam-i-am We're all as mad as hatters here, Thu 13 Nov 2008, 12:21, Reply)

by the looks of it
and from reading the review, this thing is great for recording the tracks and whipping them straight across to a computer for mixing and mastering.

which is where I'd want to be going with it as a fellow simple musician.
( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Thu 13 Nov 2008, 12:22, Reply)

opinions on it?
the twiddly knobby bits are too white, the master bit would look nice on the left and the screen could do with being a little bit bigger

what?
(Halfy By light alone, Thu 13 Nov 2008, 12:27, Reply)

I bought a Boss....something or other
That was a good little 4 track that fits in your pocket - also doubles up as a guitar effects thing. That's only any good if you record minimalisty stuff.
(GONEism, Thu 13 Nov 2008, 12:27, Reply)

Sam,
My drummer is more tech-savvy than I am. He's got a mac-book that we've used for stuff in the past, which is pretty decent.

Inputs-wise, we've got bass, guitar, vocals, then we really want four mics on the drum kit.
Three at worst, five if we can.

EDIT: Dammit Halfy, I shouldn't've laughed at that...
( Cawl, Thu 13 Nov 2008, 12:27, Reply)

Right.
I would say that if you want to get a reasonable quality demo together, and that if your band prefers to record 'as live' then this would be fine.

I'm always a little cynical of equipment that claims to do everything, as this one almost does, as you're never going to get the best of anything as they cram too much into one package (look at the itouch as an example, it does 1,000,001 things, but none of them are brilliant, and, the principle function, i.e. playing music is compromised by a low rate output signal that means it is, essentially, rubbish, imo!)

However, if used with cubase or logic then you would be ok, as the input signal is good enough; everything stays as WAV so you lose no quality and I assume the components are of reasonably good spec, so noise should be minimal.

I use this, with cubase and a stack of plug ins, but we record each track individually, so it is a good solution. That said, I'm still getting used to it, so our best recordings are currently on my computer waiting for me to faff about with and get on with the post-production.
( Moey, Thu 13 Nov 2008, 12:29, Reply)

Stop scoffing purists!!
I've been operating an incredibly simple (and cheap) setup for a reasonable amount of time. My initial priorities were getting some tunes laid down with various tracks (a number of guitars, vocals, bass, drums). Not at all for distributing as the sound quality isn't exactly perfect but to pass to band mates and bounce ideas of each other.

Anyway all I needed was:
Laptop
Audacity
Input jack (convert guitar lead to laptop sound input)
Modelling Amp
Musical Instruments

So I basically plugged the amp straight into the laptop and started recording away and you can actually get away with quite a lot.

The only problems were:
a) Vocals sounded a bit shit as I was recording in my bedroom with a cheap mike.
b) Most of my equipment is cheap shit (guitar/bass/amp etc)
c) Took a fair amount of experimenting to get the input to audacity settings correct and passable.

But all in all for mucho cheapness you can lay your ideas down and that alone is invaluable..
( whenanimalsattackhumans clad in global hypercolour, Thu 13 Nov 2008, 12:30, Reply)

@Kaol
ah, but you did, the damage has been done now.

ooh look at me trying to post something in a thread about technology, even though I have frankly no idea what the hell you are all talking about.
(Halfy By light alone, Thu 13 Nov 2008, 12:34, Reply)

Gunther,
That's really helpful, thanks!

You pretty much summed it up with "reasonable quality demo" and "prefers to record 'as live'".

I should point out that I'm not actually going to have to pay for this, my drummer had just come into some money, so he wants to get this, which is fine with me.

So cheers to everyone for their help!
( Cawl, Thu 13 Nov 2008, 12:40, Reply)

p.s.
Just read Halfys signature and blurted out laughing. Take that! - office!
( whenanimalsattackhumans clad in global hypercolour, Thu 13 Nov 2008, 12:41, Reply)

Yeah...
He's like a loveable, slightly retarded pet, who wanders around the place.

He's great :D

P.S. Halfy, dunno if you saw the new comic or not...
( Cawl, Thu 13 Nov 2008, 12:44, Reply)

No worries.
I did look at getting something similar, but I'm far more used to using cubase and like to make everyone record each track about 50 times, until their fingers bleed and they can't sing no more. Only that way can I be a complete cunt to them we get the very best recording possible.
( Moey, Thu 13 Nov 2008, 12:45, Reply)

Mate of mine..
..has something that looks very like that except it's made by Boss. Cost about the same as yours a few years ago. It's completely ace. More than adequate for recording a few demos and very easy to regularly lose a few hours to as you mess around layering sound - he's got tons of weird jams recorded that he made all by himself.
(lost, Thu 13 Nov 2008, 12:47, Reply)

Kaol
I get the feeling your band is like mine and likes to blast there way through a song, without having to redo tracks endlessly

in which case you want something that can record all the tracks well at once and then give them to your drummer to mess about with on computer

that korg thing looks ideal!
( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Thu 13 Nov 2008, 12:49, Reply)

@the dirty weeker
Do you have any links to freeware modelling amps? I've downloaded a few but there's an annoying time lag with all of them that makes it impossible to play anything properly. I'm skint so it has to be free.
(lost, Thu 13 Nov 2008, 12:50, Reply)

Vipros,
Yeah, plus it's odd, if the vocals are a bit screamy, I can't get into it as well if I'l just singing into a computer, with headphones on.
It's annoying!

Burt, cheers for that, good to know!
( Cawl, Thu 13 Nov 2008, 12:52, Reply)

our singer is the same
he finds it really hard to get into it if we aren't all grooving along

it doesn't help that a load of our songs don't have a fixed layout....
( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Thu 13 Nov 2008, 12:53, Reply)

Yeah?
Glad it isn't just me!

Our songs are pretty simple, which is easier, but still, it's easier to scream if I'm hammering out the bassline at the same time.
( Cawl, Thu 13 Nov 2008, 12:54, Reply)

Kaol
That's the problem my singer has. He seems to struggle with singing along to headphones, even if we turn the sound up as far as possible.

The other two love it as the drummer is as tedious as I am, and the guitarist likes to put layer upon layer of takes down, which I then have to trawl through to find the best one.

The singer just can't get into it unless it's live.

EDIT: I see from what Vipros said that it must be a singer thing.
( Moey, Thu 13 Nov 2008, 12:55, Reply)

I used to shout in a punk band
and I mean SHOUT!!

the mike was on about 0.5 to stop me drowning everyone out most of the time, and for rehearsals we sometimes didn't even bother with a mike!

that was when I smoked 30 malboro reds a day as well, gravelly would be the word for my tone!

I could also do excellent impressions of Barney Greenway, without any distortion peddles needed!
(Halfy By light alone, Thu 13 Nov 2008, 13:01, Reply)

Lo Siento Senor Burt Reynolds - my modelling amp was paid for from GAK. £130 Vox thing, does the job but is still quite cheap old thing..
( whenanimalsattackhumans clad in global hypercolour, Thu 13 Nov 2008, 13:04, Reply)

reminds
me of back in the day, recording our demo. Me, the guitarist, utterly incapable of tunes/rhythm unless I can see the singer. I had to make him stand in the guitar booth with me singing along, I wouldnt have had a clue when to change to the chorus or anything.

I now record alone, in 16 bar chunks in Tracktion and a multitude of VST plugins. Its ace, although I have to do about 150 takes for solos these days.
( I have run out of coke is a little sweaty, Thu 13 Nov 2008, 13:05, Reply)

I prefer to record "live" as well
get more into the feel of it

I'm mildly nervous about going into the studio next month as we will all be in different rooms recording our bits at the same time...
( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Thu 13 Nov 2008, 13:09, Reply)

Senor Reynolds
Lag is more likely to be latency on your sound card than an issue with the plugins.

Make sure you've got the latest WDM drivers for you card, if they're available. Don't use Legacy drivers - they're shit for recording.
( Noeli overtheshoulderboulderholderthingstraplatchboobs, Thu 13 Nov 2008, 13:23, Reply)

I'd say, that if you have a computer
of some sort that can record audio, you're best off buying a decent sound card with a few inputs and recording straight in there. We use Cubase but given the choice I'd go for Logic.

We've got 8 inputs on the PC in our studio but have a seperate 8 track mixer for drums only if we want to record live. Most stuff is tracked individually (except drums/bass) but that gives us 7 drum inputs and a Bass DI. Once the drums are down, bass DI signal can be 'sent' to any external amp and re-recorded with up to 8 mics (as if you'd need that many!).

Guitars then over the top, followed by vox etc all the while knowing that you can use as many tracks as you need.
(Colonel Santiago Introduced surprised kitty to the world., Thu 13 Nov 2008, 13:31, Reply)

I'd agree with djtrialprice
If you're going to record tracks then transfer them to a computer for editing and mixing, why not just record them on the computer?

If you want to record 8 inputs at once (I take it you mean you're going to play live) then just make sure you get an interface with enough inputs. The Saffire that djtrialprice recommended is very good, it has 8 mic preamps and will be over £100 cheaper than the portastudio thing, allowing you a bit of budget for mics if you want. M-Audio are also good budget interfaces.

Software wise, try Reaper for free, or Garageband on a Mac is free with OSX, or if you're up for paying then start thinking about Cubase, Logic, etc.

The other thing to think about is where you are recording - some simple cheapish acoustic treatment in this space will improve the recorded sound more than thousands of pounds worth of mics and snazzy preamps. Also think about your monitoring situation, you'll need some half decent speakers to listen back and mix on.
(Son of Sam-i-am We're all as mad as hatters here, Thu 13 Nov 2008, 13:40, Reply)

@ burt / No3l
WDM drivers aren't what you want, you need ASIO for low latency audio recording. If your interface doesn't come with ASIO drivers it's technically known as a soundcard, i.e. not really designed for recording duties.

But all is not lost, if you're on a shoestring budget and can't afford a proper interface (they start around £50 for 2 ins and 2 outs) then look for Asio4All and use their drivers instead.

Plugins will induce latency as well as the audio drivers though, if your system can handle it then run at a higher sample rate and lower buffer. Really though you need to lay down some serious cash before you will get a system capable of being able to process the guitar modelling and let you monitor it in real time - there will nearly always be a noticeable lag. The workaround is to record dry, and then add the modelling effect at the mix stage where latency doesn't matter.

Vipros - all in separate rooms is a good compromise, it should give you the feel of a live recording with the separation of overdubbing. Depending on how pro a studio you're in they may be able to arrange video monitoring as well as just the sound through the headphones, worth an ask if you think it'll help.
(Son of Sam-i-am We're all as mad as hatters here, Thu 13 Nov 2008, 13:45, Reply)

Yay something I know something about...
I have a mini-studio at home running cubase and soundcraft 14:2 mixing desk. Personally I think that desk falls short of a decent solution for what you're after. It doesn't have a soundcard built in which means you'd have to buy one separate if you wanted to record into the drummers laptop at decent quality. Something along the lines of the yamaha NRV10 would be better (do you have firewire?) or another great bit of kit is the line 6 toneport UX8. The UX8 has a lot of software geared towards guitarists which may come in handy.

As regards recording your stuff there is no other option besides reaper. It's cheap, highly regarded and very versatile. It's simply unbeatable for the price. Although I have cubase which is a £400 program I am seriously thinking of moving over to reaper - it is simply that good.
(The Archduke of South London I'm in your Girlfriend eating her organs, Thu 13 Nov 2008, 13:51, Reply)

it's a fairly decent studio
but certainly not cutting edge. pretty sure that video monitoring won't be available

we are having a pre-recording recording session at one of drummer's parents houses in Cornwall this weekend, so we are going to try playing all facing away from each other with headphones on to see if we can manage ok.

we are only aiming to record 5 or 6 tracks, and they are the ones we know best (or make up as we go along least) so should be ok!
( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Thu 13 Nov 2008, 13:51, Reply)

Sorry yeah, ASIO
Away from my computer and writing from my very shit memory :)

My Creamware 2in 2out loves those drivers!
( Noeli overtheshoulderboulderholderthingstraplatchboobs, Thu 13 Nov 2008, 13:51, Reply)

Woah
I don't understand any of this stuff.. I just want a simple modelling amp to add some reverb and maybe some weirder effects to my very basic amp. I don't have a band or anything and am no great shakes on the guitar so it's just to mess around with in the evenings. Think I might have found a free "guitar FX" program that could do the trick.

@no3l.. apparently time lag is common with free .vst plugins like the ones I've been downloading.

In general, I'm pretty happy with my soundcard. My music sounds great routed through a big, nasty guitar amp in glorious 10" speaker mono!

@the dirty weeker.. paid for in "GAK"?? There are several options here. Either you paid for it with drug money; or you are taking the piss somehow; or GAK stands for something I don't know about.
(lost, Thu 13 Nov 2008, 16:42, Reply)

GAK = Guitar amp & keyboard
Big music equipment retailer in Brighton.

All plugins will add latency, it's not just a function of free ones!

The latency will depend on sample rate and soundcard buffer size as I stated above. As I also stated above, you will need a pretty bitching computer to process the effect fast enough for you to be able to play guitar through it and not make you feel weird with the noticeable latency on the output, regardless of whether the plug is free or paid for!
(Son of Sam-i-am We're all as mad as hatters here, Thu 13 Nov 2008, 16:54, Reply)

Fair play
Tis true my sound card aint anything special.

But I've found an effects program with no lag just now.. "guitar FX 3" it's called. Although it's not .vst - just a free program that runs on it's own. On a brief try-out the sound needs tweaking.. not very impressive yet.
(lost, Thu 13 Nov 2008, 16:58, Reply)

Computer recording.
While I'm very much in agreement with all those who recommend recording directly into the computer, there is one thing about this Korg D888 Digital Recording Studio thing that would make it a great buy: if you were to take it to a gig you could record each instrument/mic individually, without worrying about interfering with the live front of house mix, then take it home and mix it down on the computer, with proper levels & post-production.

That's something I really crave, and something you can't do as easily on the computer. In fact, I now want one of these, just for that purpose.

Dammit.
( Moey, Thu 13 Nov 2008, 18:34, Reply)

Gunther
You can easily do that with a computer as well, providing you have enough inputs...

You will of course need some sort of split before the mixing desk so the engineer's adjustments don't affect what's going to tape (or disk, I always refer to it as tape though), but you'd need this whether you were using the Korg or a computer.
(Son of Sam-i-am We're all as mad as hatters here, Fri 14 Nov 2008, 8:40, Reply)

Son...
You're right; it's just I read something in the write up of the Korg thing that suggested it would be far easier with that machine.

Either way, I won't be changing from my tried and tested computer recording ways, and can't afford one of those machines, just for recording gigs anyway.

And besides, the Toneport is one of my favourite toys I've ever bought and I can't imagine not using it for everything.
( Moey, Fri 14 Nov 2008, 10:11, Reply)