I'm all for people being confident in themselves
and it's amazingly attractive when they are. But Beth Ditto doesn't actually seem that happy to me. Plus she is irritating.

I had a size 16/18 friend who was absolutely amazing beyond belief. Her confidence and vibrancy meant people didn't even notice the weight. Beth Ditto doesn't have the same feel at all
( Amberl was stripey and dominated Europe, Fri 26 Mar 2010, 13:24, 2 replies, latest was 16 years ago)

I understand what your saying but I I don't see that in her at all.
All that stuff she does to annoy people is just the rock chic stuff that Courtney Love etc did years ago, exept she's not as fucked up as her.
( girlinthehole, Fri 26 Mar 2010, 13:27, Reply)

courtney love was an annoying stupid bitch as well
and ugly.

she just wasn't a fat lesbian to boot
( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Fri 26 Mar 2010, 13:29, Reply)

Yeah but doing rock chick things
for the sake of them is a bit useless. It's like students purposefully having a wacky time. It's so contrived.

Put it like this, the first thing I notice about Beth Ditto is her weight. If she was as comfortable as she'd like us to think, it wouldn't be her weight or at least that wouldn't be the main thing
( Amberl was stripey and dominated Europe, Fri 26 Mar 2010, 13:31, Reply)

trudat
I've known plenty of larger pretty girls, who are happy and confident and stuff.

However, as I have previously mentioned, the above beast is fugly, and seems to be a horrible character, and uses her "confidence" to get away with being a filthy cunt.
( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Fri 26 Mar 2010, 13:28, Reply)

She's doing her own thing and if her own thing means being a filthy cunt and upsetting blokes then good for her.

( girlinthehole, Fri 26 Mar 2010, 13:29, Reply)

why is that good for her?
being an unpleasant twat is not something to be lauded.

I don't particularly think that she is upsetting blokes. Most of them are probably thinking "thank fuck she's batting for the other team"
( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Fri 26 Mar 2010, 13:31, Reply)

That's just your opinion.
Mine differs.
( girlinthehole, Fri 26 Mar 2010, 13:32, Reply)

I understand where you are coming from
and you are right in that people being themselves and confident etc. is a great thing.

however when doing that leads to being dreadful it's not necessarily the best thing.
( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Fri 26 Mar 2010, 13:36, Reply)

We need people who go to the extreme to shake us all up and stop the middle class rot setting in.

( girlinthehole, Fri 26 Mar 2010, 13:39, Reply)

I don't get why people
dislike the middle class. Let people live comfortable normal lives if they want. My nice middle-class mother doesn't look at Beth Ditto and think 'oooh she's really shaking up the establishment' she thinks 'put it away, you're trying too hard'
( Amberl was stripey and dominated Europe, Fri 26 Mar 2010, 13:42, Reply)

I often wonder the same
I'm terribly middle class, and don't have a problem with it
( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Fri 26 Mar 2010, 13:45, Reply)

Indeed
being middle class does *not* equal boring.
( Amberl was stripey and dominated Europe, Fri 26 Mar 2010, 13:47, Reply)

agreed Vipros
I think she scares women as much as she does blokes. Some people like that over the top persona, but she's about the level of Lady Gaga in terms of genuine shock/interest value
( Amberl was stripey and dominated Europe, Fri 26 Mar 2010, 13:33, Reply)

Hear, hear.

( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Fri 26 Mar 2010, 13:33, Reply)

I don't so much agree with what she does but I applaud her confidance to do it.
I grew up with Punk girlfriends who didn't give a shit what people thought about them. I've always found that enticing.
( girlinthehole, Fri 26 Mar 2010, 13:37, Reply)

she's doing a fashion collection for Evans
according to wikipedia. Not exactly refusing to blend in
( Amberl was stripey and dominated Europe, Fri 26 Mar 2010, 13:39, Reply)

there is something good about that
but often it gets taken too far, which I think may be the point Amberl was putting forward, that there's a big element of "take notice of how much I don't care what you think" which spoils the whole thing.
( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Fri 26 Mar 2010, 13:39, Reply)

I cannot fathom the whole 'ladette' concept
which seems to me to basically be 'I'm going to show how I'm loads better than ghastly oafish men by acting exactly the fucking same as them'.

Fucking disgusting.
( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Fri 26 Mar 2010, 13:42, Reply)

It's about being free to fuck up the same as you.

( girlinthehole, Fri 26 Mar 2010, 13:44, Reply)

surely having the choice and not doing it is far better
because let's face it, the blokes to which Monty is referring are wankers.

If women want to emulate some aspects of male behaviour then at least choose some good ones.
( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Fri 26 Mar 2010, 13:45, Reply)

Some women are crap just like some men are.

( girlinthehole, Fri 26 Mar 2010, 13:48, Reply)

That is not something to be lauded and applauded.

( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Fri 26 Mar 2010, 13:50, Reply)

But now she has the choice to be like that regardless of how awful she is.
Is no-one on here aware of life before the Suffragettes.
( girlinthehole, Fri 26 Mar 2010, 13:56, Reply)

there's too much of a blurring of general and specific going on here
I'm sure we can all agree that women have the choice and the right to act how they see fit, which is great.

However, on the whole, it'd be better if people like Beth Ditto didn't exercise that right by being absolutely fucking vile.
( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Fri 26 Mar 2010, 14:00, Reply)

Women didn't get to have the freedoms we have now by being namby pamby wallflowers.
She is an extreme but as I said before, we need extremes to push the bounderies of what is acceptable for women. Some guys today would balk at how female B3tans talk on here.
( girlinthehole, Fri 26 Mar 2010, 14:06, Reply)

that does make sense
it's unfortunate, but true.

think you are right about the b3tans too!
( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Fri 26 Mar 2010, 14:09, Reply)

But we've moved on from that
those were bad times, and we're all glad things have got better. No-one wants to go back to when women were delicate china objects. But still there are standards to be maintained, and people like Beth Ditto do nothing either for women, the obese or lesbians
( Amberl was stripey and dominated Europe, Fri 26 Mar 2010, 14:02, Reply)

Haha!
You sound like my grandma.
( girlinthehole, Fri 26 Mar 2010, 14:03, Reply)

Quite probably :)
I'm a feminist obviously. But I don't actually think that equality has anything to do Beth Ditto and her ilk. I was raised to believe that the way I behaved would reflect on who I represented.
( Amberl was stripey and dominated Europe, Fri 26 Mar 2010, 14:07, Reply)

And it's people like Beth that pushed the bounderies so that you could come on here and talk about cock and breasts and not be castigated for it.

( girlinthehole, Fri 26 Mar 2010, 14:09, Reply)

No it isn't people like Beth
Beth is doing what is right for Beth. Not for women. She can't really be compared to a suffragette
( Amberl was stripey and dominated Europe, Fri 26 Mar 2010, 14:11, Reply)

that's like saying
that P. Diddy is a role model for black people with his outstanding work on blurring racial lines in his videos
( Amberl was stripey and dominated Europe, Fri 26 Mar 2010, 14:12, Reply)

I didn't say that Beth was comprable to a suffragette.
You're not getting it.

We can carry on this conversation when we meet up if you like because we'll be running out of thread soon.

Edit - It did sound like I said that but that is not what I'm trying to say.
( girlinthehole, Fri 26 Mar 2010, 14:17, Reply)

weren't the Suffragettes on Motown?

( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Fri 26 Mar 2010, 14:04, Reply)

which brings us nicely round to the fact that Beth Ditto is a horrible fucking person
and would be if she was a big fat ugly horrible man as well.
( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Fri 26 Mar 2010, 13:50, Reply)

exactly
male or female, people like Beth Ditto are horrible
( Amberl was stripey and dominated Europe, Fri 26 Mar 2010, 13:51, Reply)

Precisely.
Acting like a grotesque, sweaty arsehole may be everyone's right but surely only a grotesque, sweaty arsehole would exercise it.
( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Fri 26 Mar 2010, 13:49, Reply)

Exactly!

( girlinthehole, Fri 26 Mar 2010, 13:51, Reply)

I bet her chubby ears are burming.

(Tugnut Ex of this parish, Fri 26 Mar 2010, 13:53, Reply)

let's hope they catch light
and her fat makes her act like a nasty smelling ugly human candle
( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Fri 26 Mar 2010, 13:54, Reply)

The very thought of her
makes me want to exercise my grotesque, sweaty arsehole.
( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Fri 26 Mar 2010, 13:56, Reply)

I don't think
you could fit her in
( Amberl was stripey and dominated Europe, Fri 26 Mar 2010, 13:57, Reply)

this made me laugh too fucking hard

( Lisette von Falcon, Fri 26 Mar 2010, 13:58, Reply)