But they don't just say it do they.
They try to get us to see things the way they do. They try to get us to live the way they do. They fight wars about it and people suffer because of it.
( girlinthehole, Thu 15 Apr 2010, 13:51, 4 replies, latest was 16 years ago)

What the fuck? I've never forced my view on anyone.
I've got a better argument for saying you try to force your view on me (and do so), because you elected a goverment that has laws of which I am forced to abide.
( G/PP 💩💩💩💩💩&#128, Thu 15 Apr 2010, 14:02, Reply)

Law and religion are two different things.

( girlinthehole, Thu 15 Apr 2010, 14:04, Reply)

yeah, law is the law
so we have to obey or face the consequences. Not the case with religion. Not here at least.
( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Thu 15 Apr 2010, 14:05, Reply)

I don't like the Queen
Any ideas on how to get rid of her?
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Thu 15 Apr 2010, 14:07, Reply)

Strap dynamite to one of the Corgis.

( girlinthehole, Thu 15 Apr 2010, 14:14, Reply)

I think I should clarify
Legally.
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Thu 15 Apr 2010, 14:17, Reply)

Fuck off, you dirty forrin coming over here stealing our jobs
and now you want rid of our queen. Well it's not on you here, it's not on at all.
(Bazongaloid, Thu 15 Apr 2010, 14:15, Reply)

I don't like the Spanish King, if that helps
I don't think someone should rule my life only because one of his/her ancestors killed more people than anyone else.
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Thu 15 Apr 2010, 14:18, Reply)

Well go over there and depose him
but you can leave Liz alone.
(Bazongaloid, Thu 15 Apr 2010, 14:20, Reply)

Yeah, well...
That would be ilegal. I'm trying to find out how to change the fact that someone I didn't chose governs my life without doing anything ilegal. Can you help?
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Thu 15 Apr 2010, 14:25, Reply)

The Queen doesn't govern your life
She is only a ceremonial figurehead. A she draws in HUGE numbers of forrins to look at her house and stuff, so she brings a lot of cash into the economy.
(Bazongaloid, Thu 15 Apr 2010, 14:35, Reply)

She's one miserable old cunt though isn't she

( Roota zweeeeeoooooowm, Thu 15 Apr 2010, 14:37, Reply)

also, she was elected by God
who are we to argue?
( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Thu 15 Apr 2010, 14:37, Reply)

Oh, yes
I forgot she's the head of your Church, as well. Good way of creating a new religion, killing a wife.
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Thu 15 Apr 2010, 14:41, Reply)

She can decide to dissolve the goverment when she fancies
and she can rule out laws.

The fact that she doesn't use her power doesn't mean she doesn't have it.

She gets quite a lot of money as a salary, and the only reason she got the job is because someone on her family killed someone else.

And she gets a lot of money from people visiting the palace and all that. She keeps that money, too. It doesn't go to you. And the same people would go to see the palace even if it wasn't a queen there anymore.
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Thu 15 Apr 2010, 14:39, Reply)

No, she can't dissolve the government
that is ridiculous scaremongering. If she attempted to dissolved the government the first thing that would happen would be that the monarchy would be deposed quicker than you can blink.

It may be written in an old lawbook that she can technically use those powers, but the reality of the situation is that she can't.
(Bazongaloid, Thu 15 Apr 2010, 14:42, Reply)

OMG u pure luv da Queen

( Roota zweeeeeoooooowm, Thu 15 Apr 2010, 14:43, Reply)

No, the reality of the situation is that she wouldn't
Because she'd be deposed. But she can.

You don't know how things will be in a few years, and someone who you didn't choose at all has a lot of power in her hands.

My point is that you seem not to be too bother about it all. You don't think you're daft for having a goverment like that.
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Thu 15 Apr 2010, 14:46, Reply)

actually legally
it is understood that the Queen cannot choose not to sign a law into existence
( Amberl was stripey and dominated Europe, Thu 15 Apr 2010, 14:42, Reply)

I don't know everything about English laws
So, what would happen if she didn't want to sign a new law?
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Thu 15 Apr 2010, 14:57, Reply)

She doesn't have a choice.
She is just a ceremonial figurehead for the government. The "powers" that she has are just a leftover way of letting the monarchy remain and save a bit of face while being effectively made useless as heads of state.
(Bazongaloid, Thu 15 Apr 2010, 15:01, Reply)

So, in the case that
things in the country are getting messy, people is very unhappy, there is a big crisis (not like this one, a proper one) and she decides not to sign a law or dissolve the goverment, do you think nobody would follow her? Do you think it wouldn't start a civil war, as it's happened in so many places? Who is she and why her?

Besides, I think it's unfair that she gets paid for being the daughter of her father.
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Thu 15 Apr 2010, 15:05, Reply)

Well you can think it's as unfair as you like
but you're deliberately coming up with doomsday scenarios like a tinfoil hat wearing weirdo. If you really hate it, can I suggest moving to a country where she isn't the head of state. It's a bit odd getting worked up about a ceremonial figurehead when we have quite blatent problems with corruption in the actual government which need to be addressed long before you get into the Monarchy/Republic debate.
(Bazongaloid, Thu 15 Apr 2010, 15:08, Reply)

^ this
if you don't like it, you don't have to live here. I'm not even a monarchist and I still think it's important to keep them. She has no actual power, and I'd be much more worried about the corrupt MPs who actually govern us
( Amberl was stripey and dominated Europe, Thu 15 Apr 2010, 15:12, Reply)

So my point is proven
You have to live in another country if you don't want to serve the Queen. Fair enough. In that case, you are not choosing your goverment, you see?

(I don't mind the Queen, I was trying to prove BGB and Al wrong)
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Thu 15 Apr 2010, 15:15, Reply)

But the queen is not the governement
you are wrong in that assertion.
(Bazongaloid, Thu 15 Apr 2010, 15:18, Reply)

She's the head of your goverment
and the head of your church.

Legally, she has those powers.

Anyway, it's not important. We could be discussing about this all day. We both think we're right, so at least we agree there.
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Thu 15 Apr 2010, 15:20, Reply)

We might both think we are right
but the difference is that you are in fact wrong.
(Bazongaloid, Thu 15 Apr 2010, 15:23, Reply)

We might both think we are right
but the difference is that you are in fact wrong.
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Thu 15 Apr 2010, 15:31, Reply)

Don't take it so badly
It all comes from BGB saying that at least we can choose our goverment, and I don't think it's true.

Personally I have no problems with her, and if most people is happy with the system, that's perfect. The problem is that there is no way to prove that people is happy with the system, because you're never asked about it.

I could say that having such a devotion for just a person, who is well known and rich thanks to centuries of blood, is more than a bit daft, but ey, I'm not here to judge anyone.
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Thu 15 Apr 2010, 15:13, Reply)

I don't have a particular devotion to the queen
this started off as a joke comment about you coming form Spain and criticising our head of state, but you then started saying she was in some way the most powerful figure in the government, and that is simply not true in the real world.

And finally, at least the queen actually exists and evidence of her existence can be presented.
(Bazongaloid, Thu 15 Apr 2010, 15:17, Reply)

Yep
I could still think it's daft to serve her, couldn't I?

And you don't get to choose your goverment.
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Thu 15 Apr 2010, 15:18, Reply)

we don't serve her
and we have a democratic system where a government is elected
( Amberl was stripey and dominated Europe, Thu 15 Apr 2010, 15:20, Reply)

Again
She's the head of the goverment and the church. She represents you in front of the rest of the world.

Otherwise, why are you paying her? What are her duties?

As I just said to Al, we'll never agree.
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Thu 15 Apr 2010, 15:22, Reply)

We won't agree because you won't accept the fact
that your argument is incorrect. We can choose our government, you may have noticed a lot of coverage of an upcoming election. That's how we choose our government. That's the reality. The queen may be the head of state, but it is a purely ceremonial role.
(Bazongaloid, Thu 15 Apr 2010, 15:25, Reply)

You want to keep talking?
OK, what (or which, I'm not sure) are the Queen duties?
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Thu 15 Apr 2010, 15:32, Reply)

"There she is...
in her cart."
( Roota zweeeeeoooooowm, Thu 15 Apr 2010, 15:34, Reply)

Hahaha!
Very good! I was drinking water and almost went to the keyboard!
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Thu 15 Apr 2010, 15:37, Reply)

I aim to please :)

( Roota zweeeeeoooooowm, Thu 15 Apr 2010, 15:38, Reply)

Good job
You've earned your salary today!
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Thu 15 Apr 2010, 15:41, Reply)

*waves slowly*
There's a few more thousand right there ^
( Roota zweeeeeoooooowm, Thu 15 Apr 2010, 15:42, Reply)

You'd be an excellent Queen
Pity nobody in your family killed enough people.
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Thu 15 Apr 2010, 15:46, Reply)

I'm too cheerful
She looks like she's sat in some mash
( Roota zweeeeeoooooowm, Thu 15 Apr 2010, 15:47, Reply)

That'd be an improvent, then
And I could visit you and we could have tea for hours.
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Thu 15 Apr 2010, 15:48, Reply)

You're saying that the religious are trying to get you to live the way they do, you're acting like the religion is forcing you into war.
I would say it's the people in power who are forcing the people to go to wars and suffer, and sometimes they do it in the name of religion. Not a single religion advocates the atrocities done it's name, it's the corruption of the religion that leads to such things. If I killed a family and told the world I did it in your name, would you just accept that, and accept responsibility for that? Exactly, so why should religion do the same?
( G/PP 💩💩💩💩💩&#128, Thu 15 Apr 2010, 14:10, Reply)

I don't know which planet you're living on.
It must be nice there.
( girlinthehole, Thu 15 Apr 2010, 14:15, Reply)

The Crusades
are not my period of history. But having brushed over them I can assure you there were a myriad of different reasons for people embarking upon them
( Amberl was stripey and dominated Europe, Thu 15 Apr 2010, 14:16, Reply)

Well
I've grown up in a Catholic country, and since before I can remember, went to Church, went to a Catholic school and had to pray to God at least 5 times a day.

However, I was never asked to go to war. And I never tried to convince anyone to join the club.

Sorry about your bad experiences. It must have been painful for you to feel so bad about it.
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Thu 15 Apr 2010, 14:21, Reply)

What atrocities have religion advocated?
Personally, I agree, state over religion, any day of the week, but I don't say religion should be dismissed as a cause of war. In fact, I'd say religion is quite against that sort of thing.

Mankind will always find ways of grouping and fighting with itself. There are people who just want to fight, both for reasons of creating a bond with their fellow fighters/football team/country/whatever, and just simply for narcersectic reasons.
( G/PP 💩💩💩💩💩&#128, Thu 15 Apr 2010, 14:22, Reply)

Not all
Most people just want to go on with their lifes and be as happy as possible.
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Thu 15 Apr 2010, 14:04, Reply)

Nice usage of the word 'they' there
Most Christians couldn't give a flying fuck what other people do with their lives. And wars? Like to give me an example of a Christian war please? And try something other than the Crusades.

Edit: what I'm trying to say is just let people live their lives. If they want to believe in something that comforts them, let them have that. If they offend your sensibilities then never talk to anyone with a different viewpoint to you. You'll miss out on a lot of life
( Amberl was stripey and dominated Europe, Thu 15 Apr 2010, 14:05, Reply)

I respect the right for you to believe in that nonsence if you respect my right to think you're as daft as a brush for believing in it.
It doesn't offend me. It makes me laugh.
( girlinthehole, Thu 15 Apr 2010, 14:19, Reply)

The difference there is
that I'm not insulting you.
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Thu 15 Apr 2010, 14:22, Reply)

I have done nothing to be insulted for.

( girlinthehole, Thu 15 Apr 2010, 14:27, Reply)

refer you to my post below
I know plenty of educated and quite fiendishly intelligent people who believe in God. Most of them are generally incredibly lovely people as well. Calling them daft as a brush and choosing to not associate with them makes you the poorer.
( Amberl was stripey and dominated Europe, Thu 15 Apr 2010, 14:29, Reply)

Really
If I wanted to be closed minded I could probably find a thousand reasons to call you daft. I don't think that's the right way to act.

Personally, I don't think I'm daft at all. And if you think you are so superior as to call people like Einstein daft, then maybe you've done something to be insulted for.
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Thu 15 Apr 2010, 14:29, Reply)

For the purposes of this discussion, is 'they' people who believe in a god
or is it people who follow an organised religion?
( Roota zweeeeeoooooowm, Thu 15 Apr 2010, 14:20, Reply)

THe latter.

( girlinthehole, Thu 15 Apr 2010, 14:27, Reply)

Cool
But a lot of the latter, even they don't preach or force it at anyone else.
Anyone who gets on with it should be allowed to get on with it.
*thinks of lovely nannas who don't think bad things about anyone but know that the Pope is a cunt*
( Roota zweeeeeoooooowm, Thu 15 Apr 2010, 14:30, Reply)

Why only the ones following an organized religion?
I thought you compared people who believe in God with people who believe in fairies. What is the difference if you aren't part of an organized religion? Could you clarify? I thought your whole point was that we're daft for having magic friends.
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Thu 15 Apr 2010, 14:33, Reply)