The Tory policy of getting society to begin think for itself and rely on itself
is the biggest change in governmental policy in years, and one very much for the good.

People, with the right support framwork where necessary, must learn to stand on their own two feet, take responsibility for their lives and the lives of those around them and take pride in being a productive member of society.
( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Wed 21 Apr 2010, 13:08, 3 replies, latest was 16 years ago)

^
absolutely this. Call it individualism if you want, but that is one thing the Tories are calling for that makes absolute sense, a reinvigoration of society and individual self-respect and responsibility
( Amberl was stripey and dominated Europe, Wed 21 Apr 2010, 13:10, Reply)

You know, I thought Naked Ape was being ironic.
At least - I hope he was.
( Larry Vest One day at a time, sweet Jesus, FFS., Wed 21 Apr 2010, 13:12, Reply)

He speaks sense
give people back self-respect. I'm not one of those ghastly people who thinks welfare should be abolished (we know the type of person), or that we should all be happy little cogs (that's socialism for you) but I do think that one of the integral problems of the moment is the lack of motivation and drive in society, the belief that it is both possible and better to do nothing than to do something
( Amberl was stripey and dominated Europe, Wed 21 Apr 2010, 13:16, Reply)

Woah there nelly
Socialism is not about abolishing welfare, you're thinking of Communism.
( Kroney, Wed 21 Apr 2010, 13:18, Reply)

I meant the second bit
happy little cogs :) Have edited for better grammar
( Amberl was stripey and dominated Europe, Wed 21 Apr 2010, 13:19, Reply)

Fair enough
That's a particular little bugbear of mine. As a borderline socialist, I do get tired of being compared to Stalin :D
( Kroney, Wed 21 Apr 2010, 13:26, Reply)

it's the moustache that does it
and the snappy threads
( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Wed 21 Apr 2010, 13:35, Reply)

Why? I'm not suggesting that the benfit system should be scrapped or that people should be left to starve on the streets
I'm simply suggesting that until people take responsibility for their lives and work towards enriching them themselves, we will constantly be propping up a society unwilling work for itself.

A housing estate with social issues will not get better with more policing, a youth centre, reach out programs and social workers unless the people there want to make better lives for themselves and are willing to put i the graft to effect that change. (this is an example)


"Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country"
( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Wed 21 Apr 2010, 13:17, Reply)

I would agree that people need to take an interest
But interest does not equal competence. There is a big difference between giving someone a voice and forcing them to take responsibility for something when they only have a passing knowledge or experience. The point of a government/administration is to provide those services that are needed by the community, but that require experience or resources that individual members of the community don't have. Abdicating from that obligation, particularly when you're only doing so to a) save the government money and b) woo the electorate by making them feel powerful, is irresponsible in the extreme. Or so I reckon, anyway.

Besides, those who are competent and committed already have the chance to get involved with their community, as school governers or local councillors for example. It's already nigh-on impossible to get people to care about local council elections. That problem's not going to be solved by letting a bunch of busybodies run your local school.
(Concrete Cow, Wed 21 Apr 2010, 14:08, Reply)

And save the government a fortune which can help who? Not the proles.
Yoyo poitics is no good for anyone. Give me a benevolent dictatorship any day.
(porkylips looks better as the sun goes down., Wed 21 Apr 2010, 13:14, Reply)

Aside from Thatcher
You and I are actually quite similar in outlook.
( Kroney, Wed 21 Apr 2010, 13:17, Reply)

Raised by a communist and a miners daughter,
And my granny was a suffragette (albeit towards the end of the movement). One of the earliest books I remember reading was the Ragged Trousered Philanthropists. This may have coloured my views somewhat.
(porkylips looks better as the sun goes down., Wed 21 Apr 2010, 13:27, Reply)

My family
are die-hard southern Tories. This may have coloured mine, slightly :)
( Kroney, Wed 21 Apr 2010, 13:31, Reply)

my family
aren't of any particular political affiliation but discussion was encouraged and participated in as long as we could provide valid points. I believe my father may have voted Labour once, but I would guess mostly Tory. As a result my families views range from me (Tory centre-right,) my sister (slightly socialist) and my brother (further right than me but doesn't bother to vote)
( Amberl was stripey and dominated Europe, Wed 21 Apr 2010, 13:36, Reply)

my family generally shares my attitude
"but they're all cunts!"
( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Wed 21 Apr 2010, 13:37, Reply)

you didn't even wait for the response

( Amberl was stripey and dominated Europe, Wed 21 Apr 2010, 13:39, Reply)

?

( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Wed 21 Apr 2010, 13:42, Reply)

the 'but they're all cunts'

( Amberl was stripey and dominated Europe, Wed 21 Apr 2010, 13:51, Reply)

that's the attitude
to politicians
( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Wed 21 Apr 2010, 13:52, Reply)

haha!
I read that entirely wrong. In that I thought you were anticipating the reply 'but they're all cunts' in answer to your family thinking the same as you
( Amberl was stripey and dominated Europe, Wed 21 Apr 2010, 13:55, Reply)

I thought that was the case
:-)

it is true as well
( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Wed 21 Apr 2010, 13:57, Reply)

My MiL is a salt-of-the-earth common prole who votes.........
Conservative. "Because they know how to rule us properly."
I despair, I really do.
(porkylips looks better as the sun goes down., Wed 21 Apr 2010, 13:37, Reply)

see
she knows what's good for her ;)
( Amberl was stripey and dominated Europe, Wed 21 Apr 2010, 13:39, Reply)

SEES RED!!!!
Then sees the smiley. It's just so typical of people who think that their responsibility ends with voting a government in.
(porkylips looks better as the sun goes down., Wed 21 Apr 2010, 13:46, Reply)

Personally I blame Jeremy Kyle and celebrity magazines.
And Jade Goody.
( Davros' Granddad a voice of calm reason in a world of spastics., Wed 21 Apr 2010, 13:26, Reply)

I blame the parents.

(porkylips looks better as the sun goes down., Wed 21 Apr 2010, 13:28, Reply)

I blame YOUR parents.

( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Wed 21 Apr 2010, 13:29, Reply)

SO DO I!
For anything and everything.
(porkylips looks better as the sun goes down., Wed 21 Apr 2010, 13:47, Reply)