Vindicated by Romans.
Reading Seneca's letters to Lucilius today, I came across a passage that succinctly summarises my attitude to popular culture:

'...you may scorn the pleasures that come from the majority's approval. The many speak highly of you, but have you really any grounds for satisfaction with yourself if you are the kind of person the many understand?'

So nerr, populists. In other news, I had no idea that Herman Goering was a lifelong morphine addict.

Did you know that? Do you have a surprising or interesting factoid you can share about a figure from history? Another one I have is that supposed poster-boy for 'small man syndrome' Napoleon Bonaparte was not remarkably short for his time.
( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Mon 31 May 2010, 16:07, 124 replies, latest was 16 years ago)

Not really a figure from history
but our esteemed ex PM, Gordon Brown, was well known on the Edinburgh gayblade scene when he was at Uni. I was pretty surprised to be honest.
(Cancer Joy was short lived, Mon 31 May 2010, 16:20, Reply)

Really?
I wonder if he'd pop out his false eye to create a novel helmet receptacle?
( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Mon 31 May 2010, 16:24, Reply)

"Cum in ma socket"

(Cancer Joy was short lived, Mon 31 May 2010, 16:25, Reply)

Nutsack firmly in hand, like so:

( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Mon 31 May 2010, 16:34, Reply)

isn't that because French measurements are different?

( Amberl was stripey and dominated Europe, Mon 31 May 2010, 16:26, Reply)

That may indeed be the case, for all I know.
I understood it was one of those unsubstantiated negative PR stories, along the lines of the 'Hitler only had one bollock' claims.
( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Mon 31 May 2010, 16:29, Reply)

The below story comes from Cassius Dio, so is probably guff.
Cicero was an annoying cunt. I think who know me know my feelings about this particular little upstart twat.

So, he got assassinated for being a twat. Thank you Mark Anthony. He was put on the proscription list (a list of names where if you saw them, you could kill them without fear of reprimand.) The people who killed him cut off his right hand and head, as his right hand had written so many shitty things. They displayed the hand and head on the Rostra in the Forum. Mark Anthony's wife drew out Cicero's tongue and stabbed it with her hairpin as a revenge for all the spiteful things he'd said.

Good fucking riddance.
( Lampito rise with the moon, go to bed with the sun, Mon 31 May 2010, 16:32, Reply)

Mark Antony was also a frightful cunt, was he not?

( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Mon 31 May 2010, 16:36, Reply)

Not an area of history I know very much about.
Helping bump off Cicero puts him in my good books.

I'm shockingly badly read.
( Lampito rise with the moon, go to bed with the sun, Mon 31 May 2010, 16:37, Reply)

He was vulgar, a cad and a thoroughgoing bounder, if I remember correctly.

( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Mon 31 May 2010, 16:43, Reply)

He was a massive cunt
but a pretty damn good leader.

But my heart lies with Julius Caesar
( Amberl was stripey and dominated Europe, Mon 31 May 2010, 16:45, Reply)

Those two attributes often go hand in hand, do they not?
Churchill was a fucking nightmare. That Hitler chappie, too, I'll bet.
( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Mon 31 May 2010, 16:48, Reply)

they do
but Julius Caesar wasn't a cunt, and he was even better than Mark Antony. And Augustus was better than them both without very much bad behaviour
( Amberl was stripey and dominated Europe, Mon 31 May 2010, 16:49, Reply)

I went off Augustus
when I found out he wore built-up shoes, the Sarkozy-esque twat.
( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Mon 31 May 2010, 16:53, Reply)

he didn't generally
And he also slept on a bed hard enough to be a slaves. And ate frugally. And only had a golden laurel outside his house to signify his importance. That was it. What a man
( Amberl was stripey and dominated Europe, Mon 31 May 2010, 16:54, Reply)

All self-generated PR stories I'll bet.
Much like Gandhi's 'ooh, I'm such an Indian peasant' schtick, the public-school educated kiddy-fiddling fraud.
( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Mon 31 May 2010, 17:10, Reply)

It wasn't lies with Augustus
I bet. Though I may be blinded by admiration, and he did behave quite shittily to the Julias
( Amberl was stripey and dominated Europe, Mon 31 May 2010, 17:12, Reply)

I thought he ate frugally
because the weed had constant digestive troubles - this may have been gleaned from a historical novel, though.

When you reach my age you forget such vital things as where you read something...
( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Mon 31 May 2010, 17:19, Reply)

He was quite fragile when he was younger
and had a bad illness once, so he did take quite good care of himself. It paid off though
( Amberl was stripey and dominated Europe, Mon 31 May 2010, 17:22, Reply)

A weedy midget poof, then.
You're not really selling the chap, I have to say...
( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Mon 31 May 2010, 17:24, Reply)

He wasn't short
not really. Nor weedy. He was a golden youth who grew up to be an amazing leader. Three Cheers for ancient historical crushes!
( Amberl was stripey and dominated Europe, Mon 31 May 2010, 17:48, Reply)

When you reach your age
You forget your own fucking age, Monters old bean.
( Davros' Granddad a voice of calm reason in a world of spastics., Mon 31 May 2010, 18:06, Reply)

This is demonstrably so, is it not, my dear Davvers?

( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Mon 31 May 2010, 18:10, Reply)

Certainly is old chap.
Why, only yesterday I was convinced I was only 25, and proceeded to drink my own body weight in beer from 3pm - 1am.

Oh, how they laughed in A&E when they informed me that my medical records stated I was, in fact, pushing 40, and should really know better by now.
( Davros' Granddad a voice of calm reason in a world of spastics., Mon 31 May 2010, 18:15, Reply)

My favourite leader probably is Cath the Great
She was awesome.

Just that Russia will never work, the size that it is.
( Lampito rise with the moon, go to bed with the sun, Mon 31 May 2010, 16:48, Reply)

Mine is Genghis Khan by a country mile.
I fucking HEART Genghis Khan, big time.
( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Mon 31 May 2010, 16:50, Reply)

Lycurgus, if he ever existed, would have been pretty awesome.

( Lampito rise with the moon, go to bed with the sun, Mon 31 May 2010, 16:52, Reply)

Nah
what a total bastard
( Amberl was stripey and dominated Europe, Mon 31 May 2010, 16:54, Reply)

Don't knock the Spartans
they were awesome.
( Lampito rise with the moon, go to bed with the sun, Mon 31 May 2010, 16:54, Reply)

some of them were true
but Lycurgus doesn't sound very pleasant (fictitious obviously)
( Amberl was stripey and dominated Europe, Mon 31 May 2010, 16:56, Reply)

I used to know the Great Rhetra off by heart
not hard, as it's like 5 lines long

I love Simonides' epigram at Thermopylae. It's one of my favourite snippits of poetry
"Go tell the Spartans, passer by
that here, according to their laws, we lie"
Ὦ ξεῖν', ἀγγέλλειν Λακεδαιμονίοις ὅτι τῇδε
κείμεθα, τοῖς κείνων ῥήμασι πειθόμενοι.
( Lampito rise with the moon, go to bed with the sun, Mon 31 May 2010, 16:59, Reply)

When I watched 300
I was annoyed they got the translation wrong I seem to remember. It's such an evocative piece of writing
( Amberl was stripey and dominated Europe, Mon 31 May 2010, 17:11, Reply)

If you frequently reminded yourself
that it was an adaptation of a comic book rather than of ancient texts, the whole shoddy thing was a lot easier to cope with, I found.
( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Mon 31 May 2010, 17:14, Reply)

I've not seen 300
it's what most people say when I say I'm interested in Sparta.
( Lampito rise with the moon, go to bed with the sun, Mon 31 May 2010, 17:19, Reply)

I laughed
when the Spartans contemptuously called the Athenians 'boy-lovers' in the film. Pot, kettle, black anyone?
( Amberl was stripey and dominated Europe, Mon 31 May 2010, 17:21, Reply)

While hammered on Friday
I remember lecturing the poor boy I was with on anal sex.

I may have been preaching to the converted.
( Lampito rise with the moon, go to bed with the sun, Mon 31 May 2010, 17:22, Reply)

Haha
were you lecturing him on the evils? Given your 'big three' attitude.
( Amberl was stripey and dominated Europe, Mon 31 May 2010, 17:24, Reply)

It was scary
I mentioned smack, and said it was part of the 3 things I'd never do.

One of the people we were with replied with "So, it's smack, anal and what?"

I almost had a fit. HOW DID HE KNOWWWWWW
( Lampito rise with the moon, go to bed with the sun, Mon 31 May 2010, 17:25, Reply)

That is a tiny bit scary

( Amberl was stripey and dominated Europe, Mon 31 May 2010, 17:34, Reply)

Apparently girls don't like anal
He may have found out the hard way.
( Lampito rise with the moon, go to bed with the sun, Mon 31 May 2010, 17:38, Reply)

As an Emperor
I love Augustus, though I also have some love for Vespasian.
( Amberl was stripey and dominated Europe, Mon 31 May 2010, 16:53, Reply)

Trajan always appealed to me.
I cannot remember why, though. Mind you Nero was nowhere near as bad as history traditionally paints him. He was a knob and a deviant, but did much for the architecture of Rome as opposed to beings its destroyer, it is now thought, I understand?
( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Mon 31 May 2010, 16:56, Reply)

Haha I did an essay on that
and the conclusion I came too was that while Nero did indeed contribute to architecture, that it wasn't the public that was the beneficiary. And he was still a massive cunt
( Amberl was stripey and dominated Europe, Mon 31 May 2010, 16:58, Reply)

Who cares about the public?
If you wander about in Bucharest, you cannot fail to be impressed by Ceacescu's building works, built with the blood of his people or not.
( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Mon 31 May 2010, 17:02, Reply)

well
if you're going to evaluate an Emperor, then you need to.

After all some biographers argue that Nero was positing a cultural transition shift, from a military focus to a cultural one. I say that's a load of nonsense, he was an insane wanker who was herded in at the beginning, then broke out at the end
( Amberl was stripey and dominated Europe, Mon 31 May 2010, 17:04, Reply)

I evaluate Emperors thusly:
1. Were they mental?
3. Did they commission huge engineering or architectural works?
4. Were they a sadist and ideally an incest-monger?
5. Did they slaughter any innocents?
( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Mon 31 May 2010, 17:07, Reply)

As I remember
Ronald Symes wasn't a big fan of Cicero either
( Amberl was stripey and dominated Europe, Mon 31 May 2010, 16:44, Reply)

The cunt went to Oriel :(

( Lampito rise with the moon, go to bed with the sun, Mon 31 May 2010, 16:48, Reply)

Who,
Cicero?

EDIT: I was joking, you oafs.
( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Mon 31 May 2010, 16:48, Reply)

Ronald Syme
BITTER? ME? NO


I know. I have no sense of humour
( Lampito rise with the moon, go to bed with the sun, Mon 31 May 2010, 16:51, Reply)

At least you left your reply up
UNLIKE SOME.
( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Mon 31 May 2010, 17:15, Reply)

I was looking for corrobative evidence
and couldn't find any. And I'd rather the world didn't know my college on second thoughts
( Amberl was stripey and dominated Europe, Mon 31 May 2010, 17:20, Reply)

Heh I noticed that
DELETION
( Lampito rise with the moon, go to bed with the sun, Mon 31 May 2010, 17:20, Reply)

it wouldn't matter if you saw it
but as I said above, bit silly broadcasting my college. Paranoid ON THE INTERNET
( Amberl was stripey and dominated Europe, Mon 31 May 2010, 17:23, Reply)

I'll come and stalk you.

( Lampito rise with the moon, go to bed with the sun, Mon 31 May 2010, 17:23, Reply)

I'm posting from my scary white van
I'M ALREADY ON MY WAY.
( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Mon 31 May 2010, 17:28, Reply)

Locked gates though!

( Amberl was stripey and dominated Europe, Mon 31 May 2010, 17:29, Reply)

Oxy-acetylene torch though!

( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Mon 31 May 2010, 17:33, Reply)

touché
I'll be the one cowering in fear
( Amberl was stripey and dominated Europe, Mon 31 May 2010, 17:52, Reply)

Also, Peter III of Russia
had a dodgy penis, and once crucified a rat for eating one of his toy soldiers.
( Lampito rise with the moon, go to bed with the sun, Mon 31 May 2010, 16:38, Reply)

Were these two things related, do we know?

( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Mon 31 May 2010, 16:41, Reply)

He was mentally immature
as far as we know, he and Catherine the Great never managed to reproduce- her children were from her numerous affairs. It was either too big, he had phimosis, or he just didn't know what to do with it.

He was also sadistic, hence the rat thing, and obsessed with military uniforms and used to play with toy soldiers on the duvet when Catherine was trying to sleep. He'd also breed spaniels in the bedroom.

Fuck this is all coming back to me!
( Lampito rise with the moon, go to bed with the sun, Mon 31 May 2010, 16:43, Reply)

The Catherine the Great horse-sex rumour is disappointingly bollocks, isn't it?

( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Mon 31 May 2010, 16:44, Reply)

Not quite.
A kernel of truth.

She liked to ride like a man. And a lot. Some historians think she got sexual pleasure from being bumped around by a big, muscular thing between her legs.
( Lampito rise with the moon, go to bed with the sun, Mon 31 May 2010, 16:45, Reply)

indeed it is
again just a nasty rumour
( Amberl was stripey and dominated Europe, Mon 31 May 2010, 16:48, Reply)

THREADJACK
there's a marrow donation thing in my halls at the moment. I'm bored.

Should I go and do it?
( Lampito rise with the moon, go to bed with the sun, Mon 31 May 2010, 17:16, Reply)

find out ethnicity needed first
if you're a bit unusual then go for it
( Amberl was stripey and dominated Europe, Mon 31 May 2010, 17:19, Reply)

I'm standard mongrel
I know my blood type though!
( Lampito rise with the moon, go to bed with the sun, Mon 31 May 2010, 17:20, Reply)

Have you got an allotment?
If not, maybe they'd be content with a couple of courgettes.

Fucking students, always trying to ponce free food.
( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Mon 31 May 2010, 17:20, Reply)

Oh I'd forgotten about that kind of marrow

( Lampito rise with the moon, go to bed with the sun, Mon 31 May 2010, 17:21, Reply)

The Supreme Crow will happily remind you
given half the chance.
( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Mon 31 May 2010, 17:22, Reply)

O_O
I'll break his limp wrists.
( Lampito rise with the moon, go to bed with the sun, Mon 31 May 2010, 17:23, Reply)

...with a cocktail stick....

( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Mon 31 May 2010, 17:29, Reply)

HE'LL NEVER TOUCH A COCK AGAIN

( Lampito rise with the moon, go to bed with the sun, Mon 31 May 2010, 17:35, Reply)

HE'LL FIND A WAY.

( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Mon 31 May 2010, 17:37, Reply)

I guess you're right
it must be pretty hard giving a handjob with his hands flopping around anyway. Having casts on them might make it easier
( Lampito rise with the moon, go to bed with the sun, Mon 31 May 2010, 17:41, Reply)

homedrunklol RIGHT HERE

( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Mon 31 May 2010, 17:51, Reply)

he might never touch a cock again
but what's wrong with his mouth?
( Amberl was stripey and dominated Europe, Mon 31 May 2010, 17:52, Reply)

Giving a blowjob hands free is quite difficult.
Especially undressing your partner :D
( Lampito rise with the moon, go to bed with the sun, Mon 31 May 2010, 17:54, Reply)

Crow's partner can undress himself
and the casts can provide support. He's skilled enough to deal with the rest
( Amberl was stripey and dominated Europe, Mon 31 May 2010, 17:55, Reply)

Also, supporting yourself on your hands and knees while being buggered
He might find that difficult.



OH GOD WHAT ARE WE DOING?!
( Lampito rise with the moon, go to bed with the sun, Mon 31 May 2010, 17:56, Reply)

which is why he'll be on his back
more difficult but more loving.

We're impugning a good man here :(
( Amberl was stripey and dominated Europe, Mon 31 May 2010, 17:57, Reply)

I think I want to blind my mind's eye.

( Lampito rise with the moon, go to bed with the sun, Mon 31 May 2010, 17:59, Reply)

or videotape it
and sell it to supplement your degree
( Amberl was stripey and dominated Europe, Mon 31 May 2010, 18:00, Reply)

what's NOT wrong with his mouth?

( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Mon 31 May 2010, 18:05, Reply)

Yank his teeth out with pliers, I say.

( Lampito rise with the moon, go to bed with the sun, Mon 31 May 2010, 18:06, Reply)

HISTORY WILL THANK YOU FOR IT.

( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Mon 31 May 2010, 18:14, Reply)

Is that what his boyfriend's called?
Odd name.
( Lampito rise with the moon, go to bed with the sun, Mon 31 May 2010, 18:20, Reply)

it was his prison name

( Amberl was stripey and dominated Europe, Mon 31 May 2010, 18:22, Reply)

You'll be History's!

( Lampito rise with the moon, go to bed with the sun, Mon 31 May 2010, 18:26, Reply)

I'm sure you know better

( Amberl was stripey and dominated Europe, Mon 31 May 2010, 18:14, Reply)

-takes a bow-
-makes sure she doesn't bend over too far, for fear of marrow-shaped retribution-
( Lampito rise with the moon, go to bed with the sun, Mon 31 May 2010, 17:53, Reply)

This thread is so gay in so many ways.
I knew about the Napoleon thing. Woo!
( girlinthehole, Mon 31 May 2010, 17:52, Reply)

it's been gay-jacked
and I am NOT HAPPY ABOUT IT.
( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Mon 31 May 2010, 18:06, Reply)

I think it's my fault
being degenerate and bent and liking trannies
( Lampito rise with the moon, go to bed with the sun, Mon 31 May 2010, 18:07, Reply)

'Reading Seneca's letters to Lucilius today, I came across a passage that succinctly summarises my attitude to popular culture:'
Straight out of Oscar Wilde.
( girlinthehole, Mon 31 May 2010, 18:10, Reply)

...and into Kenneth Williams
without so much as a 'courtesy wipe'.
( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Mon 31 May 2010, 18:15, Reply)