'cancel all child benefit and tax credits for households with income over £30000'
seems a mite unfair to me
( Amberl was stripey and dominated Europe, Thu 17 Jun 2010, 15:49, 1 reply, 16 years ago)

Bollocks
you think it's a great idea, and you also support going round their houses and kicking them in the cunt once a week.
(Bazongaloid, Thu 17 Jun 2010, 15:51, Reply)

well yeah
but I can't just say that can I?

But seriously though, your point above is wellmade. Child benefit should not be an income linked payment. That's just unfair.

Benefits need to be reformed, and quickly. But not just cut, just shifted in focus to encourage people to work, rather than simply have more children, or live off the state
( Amberl was stripey and dominated Europe, Thu 17 Jun 2010, 15:54, Reply)

But it's not that simple
you can't encourage people to work just by cutting their benefits, there have to be jobs for them to do, and right now in the UK the number of jobs is pretty slim, and the number of decent jobs is even slimmer, it's one thing to say people should get off their arse and work, but some people have higher aspirations than just cleaning toilets or working a checkout.

I think some welfare reform is required, but it's not going to solve the problem on it's own unless money is put into a job creation base.
(Bazongaloid, Thu 17 Jun 2010, 15:57, Reply)

You might have more aspirations
But if you need the money, you do whatever you have to do. And we're talking about showing interest in finding a job, at least. Stop spending the day drinking beer and doing nothing.
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Thu 17 Jun 2010, 15:59, Reply)

higher aspirations?
I'll remember that, next time I have to work in the summer. I won't do anything like clean or waitress, I'll wait until something that suits my talents becomes available.

Job creation is needed true. But more than that, there needs to be reforms where it is not made an option to simply live on benefits for your whole life. You can say cutting benefits doesn't work, but it'll make the people who are working to fund a lifestyle, happier about it
( Amberl was stripey and dominated Europe, Thu 17 Jun 2010, 16:00, Reply)

RIght
That's a stupid facetious response. If you are looking for a stop gap job between studies then you take a stop gap unskilled job. If however you have had a kid and are trying to get back into work and you have a degree but there aren't many jobs available in your preferred field then I'm saying you shouldn't force people into menial unskilled jobs just so a bunch of uninformed daily mail readers can feel better about themselves.

I did say welfare reform is required, but it's not going to actually solve the problem of long term unemployment on it's own.
(Bazongaloid, Thu 17 Jun 2010, 16:07, Reply)

not really it isn't
we both know, that frankly it's not the people with decent degrees who genuinely want to get back into work that are the problem.

It's the people with shit degrees from shit places who stayed in university to delay the inevitable, or those who don't have any qualifications at all, no desire to get any or indeed to get a job who are the drain.

Calling me a daily mail reader isn't solving anything or refuting any points. I've already stated that both job creation, and better management of apprenticeship programs and better support from school-to-work is necessary. But it's not going to do anything if you don't solve the problem of the real system drains- those who don't want to do anything unless they're forced into it
( Amberl was stripey and dominated Europe, Thu 17 Jun 2010, 16:12, Reply)

I like the way you change verbs there
...If you want to take a gap...
...If you have a kid...

These days, 90% of the times you have a kid because you want or because you haven't been careful enough. Why do I have to pay for your errors or luxuries?

I wanted to have kids since I was 24, and here I am, at 30, no babies, because I couldn't afford them.
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Thu 17 Jun 2010, 16:19, Reply)

Why do I have to pay for your errors or luxuries?
Because in thirty five years time it will be those errors and luxuries that are supporting you, and whose taxes will be paying for your pension.
(Cave Duck, Thu 17 Jun 2010, 16:35, Reply)

I am not sure about that
And I hope for your own good that you are not relying on that and are paying for a good private pension.
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Thu 17 Jun 2010, 16:38, Reply)

It's not just pensions, who will pay for the NHS that the aging population will need?

(Cave Duck, Thu 17 Jun 2010, 16:49, Reply)

In that case
See Amberl's answer below.
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Thu 17 Jun 2010, 16:53, Reply)

It's a point that needs addressing
but if you read through the discussion, I think you'll find we're addressing more specifically the families who choose to live on welfare and bring their children up in the same way. I doubt they're going to be supporting anyone
( Amberl was stripey and dominated Europe, Thu 17 Jun 2010, 16:40, Reply)

Fair point, I was speaking more generally.
However these children do exist. You and I are already "supporting them" by paying for their state education, social services, etc. Also supporting the children must at least give them the chance to become contributing members of society.
(Cave Duck, Thu 17 Jun 2010, 16:54, Reply)

Yes
And we can't just cut all the benefits overnight, as they childs would be in trouble, rather than the parents. But the system needs to be modified to make sure that parents are trying to improve their and their kids lives.
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Thu 17 Jun 2010, 16:55, Reply)

^^this
That's one of the reasons I couldn't understand a government letting Rover go under for a measly few million quid, and then bail out banks with billions.

Rover, hate or, well...dislike them, did create jobs, and sold cars that were made by people with those jobs.

I don't know the stats of how many workers from that plant are still unemployed but I bet it's a fair few.

It's about time we started investing in our country again, for as far as I can tell, we make very little - the only, ahem, industry we had left that bought in serious money was the banking/investment industry - and look what happens when a sole industry has a monopolistic hold over a country.

It's the reason companies build themselves into groups of companies - if one part of their business is failing, then the others prop it up.

That way, we might actually have jobs that people feel good about as opposed to wiping the arses of MPs or 'working' for a council.
(dchurch bah, Fri 18 Jun 2010, 9:03, Reply)

Exactly that
You tell a teenager that she has a baby and she doesn't need to work in all her live, and what do you think she's going to do?
(Aberracion Life's getting very complicated, but a lot of fun., Thu 17 Jun 2010, 15:58, Reply)