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(, Sun 1 Apr 2001, 1:00)
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Might have seen this elsewhere but:
news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/politics/10341863.stm

reasonably interesting.

What would you cut?
(, Thu 17 Jun 2010, 15:30, 129 replies, latest was 16 years ago)
Your mum if she ever backchats me like that again.

(, Thu 17 Jun 2010, 15:41, Reply)
you fackin caaaaant

(, Thu 17 Jun 2010, 15:42, Reply)
I agree with a lot of those
and I'd cut myself a piece of cake

Edit: I mean the Stonehenge Visitor centre is just stupid at £25 million
(, Thu 17 Jun 2010, 15:42, Reply)
Yeh but things like that would make money back
and 25 million is small potatoes in comparison to other spends like weapons that will never be fired.
(, Thu 17 Jun 2010, 15:53, Reply)
Quite

(, Thu 17 Jun 2010, 15:54, Reply)
you think nuclear weapons
aren't necessary?

Because unilateral disarmanent is a brilliant idea isn't it?
(, Thu 17 Jun 2010, 15:56, Reply)
I think there are many countries that do very well without nuclear weapons
and Trident is too expensive.
(, Thu 17 Jun 2010, 16:03, Reply)
it's not too expensive for what it is
though I think the contracts have been poorly handled.

And people can chuck around terms like 'we're not a first-rank country anymore' (true) 'they're only for prestige' (false) but the fact remains, we do need them. We're not the safest of countries by a long way.
(, Thu 17 Jun 2010, 16:06, Reply)
I think now would be a good point to agree to disagree

(, Thu 17 Jun 2010, 16:09, Reply)
Not the safest of countries?
And what fucking use is a nuclear warhead going to be when tackling terrorism? We aren't dealing with a whole country that you might possibly be able to in some way justify using a nuclear weapon on. A lesser number of land based nukes would be a fraction of the cost of running submarines and would keep us just as "safe"
(, Thu 17 Jun 2010, 16:10, Reply)
sorry
at what point did I claim it was for use in tackling terrorism. How about not jumping to conclusions. In my personal opinion there are several countries that have the capability to become fully nuclear powers who are not the safest or most stabile of countries. Nuclear is, as it has always been, a deterrent.
(, Thu 17 Jun 2010, 16:15, Reply)
An unusable deterrant too
If a state wanted to use a nuclear weapon against us land based missile would be just as good a "detterant" but if they did use nuclear weapons what use is firing one back? Use of nuclear weapons is not morally justifiable in any situation.
(, Thu 17 Jun 2010, 16:18, Reply)
Submarine-based nukes are pretty much a first-strike weapon.

(, Thu 17 Jun 2010, 16:23, Reply)
Tony Blair's justification for spending billions of £££s on a Trident replacement?
"Well, the French have nuclear weapons too".

Thanks Tony.

In the words of Dougals Adams "Zaphod is this guy, you know?"
(, Thu 17 Jun 2010, 16:41, Reply)
And of course all the other European countries with no deterrent get nuked all the bloody time

(, Thu 17 Jun 2010, 16:23, Reply)
well it's no good
just planning for the current situation is it? That's a ridiculous standpoint to take 'it hasn't happened so far, so why should it'
(, Thu 17 Jun 2010, 16:25, Reply)
So they are all taking a ridiculous standpoint?

(, Thu 17 Jun 2010, 16:26, Reply)
no
I just don't think many of them are in the same political situation as Britain is. We have to plan for ourselves, just as they are planning for themselves. And yes, we do run more of a risk than Poland does
(, Thu 17 Jun 2010, 16:27, Reply)
Poland has previous though doesn't it
If I was Poland I'd be looking over my shoulder
(, Thu 17 Jun 2010, 16:35, Reply)
In all fairness
Poland should be looking over *both* shoulders.
(, Thu 17 Jun 2010, 16:47, Reply)
It does when I'm behind it
I like to sway side to side and then make it call me daddy.
(, Thu 17 Jun 2010, 16:49, Reply)
I quite like a concept from some of Ken McLeod's novels -
selling nuclear insurance policies to non-nuclear countries.
(, Thu 17 Jun 2010, 16:16, Reply)
I suggest that you and I team up, go to gullible non-nuclear countries
pretending to be representing countries with weapons and sell them these policies.
(, Thu 17 Jun 2010, 16:19, Reply)
It's a foolproof plan,
assuming they won't find out we've been lying until they get nuked and we don't nuke anyone back, at which point there's not going to be much they can do about it.
(, Thu 17 Jun 2010, 16:21, Reply)
I cannot see a single flaw in this plan

(, Thu 17 Jun 2010, 16:57, Reply)
Trident.

(, Thu 17 Jun 2010, 15:43, Reply)
the chewing gum?

(, Thu 17 Jun 2010, 15:43, Reply)
And Hubba Bubba
I tried some a few years ago and it was fucking rank.
(, Thu 17 Jun 2010, 15:44, Reply)
I recall last time I had Hubba Bubba
I chewed up a whole packet in an attempt to blow a massive bubble, then when I tried to blow the bubble I just gobbed out the mass of gum.

Thank you for dredging up this horribly traumatic memory. you fucker.
(, Thu 17 Jun 2010, 15:46, Reply)
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
You're so thick you couldn't even blow a bubble without splurting all over the floor!
(, Thu 17 Jun 2010, 15:48, Reply)
in my defence
it was a massive lump of gum
(, Thu 17 Jun 2010, 15:50, Reply)

g c

Blowing spunkbubbles is trickier than documentaries on the subject would have us believe.
(, Thu 17 Jun 2010, 15:54, Reply)
it seems like you speak from experience
edit: also, good work on the minjury thing.
(, Thu 17 Jun 2010, 15:54, Reply)
I got some up my nose :(

(, Thu 17 Jun 2010, 15:58, Reply)
ricochet?

(, Thu 17 Jun 2010, 16:00, Reply)
Bless you.

(, Thu 17 Jun 2010, 16:18, Reply)
damn
you have spoiled my intended pun about an irishman named Rick
(, Thu 17 Jun 2010, 16:20, Reply)
Hah!
On the bright side though, it doesn't sound like it would have been very funny, so you might have dodged a bullet there.
(, Thu 17 Jun 2010, 16:22, Reply)
you are probably right
so...umm..thanks
(, Thu 17 Jun 2010, 17:00, Reply)
In High School a few of my mates had a competition
to see who could fit the most Hubba Bubba into their mouths.

Somebody won with something ridiculous like 3 packets...
(, Thu 17 Jun 2010, 16:00, Reply)
thats ridiculous

(, Thu 17 Jun 2010, 17:06, Reply)
Any "interesting" study
Like "Areas of Excitment and Geography of the Clitorix" or "Study and Evolution of the Basque Cuisine"

Or any good organization, like Lesbians in Zimbawe.

All paid and supported by you know who and still running.
(, Thu 17 Jun 2010, 15:43, Reply)
Voldemort commissioned studies into Lesbians and Basque Cuisine?
the fiendish dastard!
(, Thu 17 Jun 2010, 15:44, Reply)
He's a little tinker isn't he!

(, Thu 17 Jun 2010, 15:45, Reply)
Exactly
Although this days we prefer to call him Mr. Bean.

www.google.co.uk/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4SUNC_enGB383GB383&q=mr+bean+zapatero
(, Thu 17 Jun 2010, 15:46, Reply)
I read that as
Lesbians vs Zombies, which would be awesome and deserving of extensive funding.
(, Thu 17 Jun 2010, 16:03, Reply)
You can propose it in Spain
I'm sure you'll get the money.
(, Thu 17 Jun 2010, 16:23, Reply)
doubt it
he's cut civil servants wages by 5% - surely there can't be money for a lesbians v zombies study
(, Thu 17 Jun 2010, 17:08, Reply)
Yes, there is
The other 2, about the clitorix and the basques has just been approved. And around €30m for the unions as well.
(, Thu 17 Jun 2010, 17:11, Reply)
your beardy twat

(, Thu 17 Jun 2010, 15:44, Reply)
I don't have a twat

(, Thu 17 Jun 2010, 15:48, Reply)
You've forgotten about Bert again havne't you.

(, Thu 17 Jun 2010, 15:48, Reply)
I wouldn't say he is my twat though

(, Thu 17 Jun 2010, 15:50, Reply)
well he is glued to you
with the proceeds of both your passion. As evinced by the last thread.
(, Thu 17 Jun 2010, 15:51, Reply)
I didn't confirm or deny that
you are leaping to conclusions
(, Thu 17 Jun 2010, 15:52, Reply)
I just like stating the obvious

(, Thu 17 Jun 2010, 15:55, Reply)
I've noticed
you like stating the wrong too
(, Thu 17 Jun 2010, 15:56, Reply)
look
it's a bright, new, honest and open world. Where you no longer have to be ashamed of your feelings
(, Thu 17 Jun 2010, 16:01, Reply)
I'm not ashamed of anything

(, Thu 17 Jun 2010, 16:10, Reply)
:) it's a good way to be

(, Thu 17 Jun 2010, 16:13, Reply)
that phrase sums me up succinctly ;-)

(, Thu 17 Jun 2010, 16:15, Reply)
It's not really a cut.
I would scrap all benefits in favour of a single payment system which would still have the non-contributory elements but all other benefits would be means tested. Eventually the contributory benefits could be scrapped so that all benefit would be means tested and come from a single claim.
Also cancel all child benefit and tax credits for households with income over £30000. I would scrap the inheritance tax but bring in a capital gains tax which would depend on source of gain.
Oh, and send forrins home obviously.
(, Thu 17 Jun 2010, 15:47, Reply)
Where have you been today?
How are you?

I would scrap all benefits to single mothers of kids more than 4years old unless they prove they're really trying to find a job.

If I can have a kid and manage to work so do you.
(, Thu 17 Jun 2010, 15:49, Reply)
And how will you pay for their child care?
Or force employers to offer flexible working? But what if flexible hours simply aren't suitable to the job you want to do? You should condemn those people who have aspirations beyond stacking shelves to poverty?
(, Thu 17 Jun 2010, 15:50, Reply)
Excuse me
After 4 years old they can and should go to school. If I have a kid I get 9 months of paid maternity leave and after that, back to work if I want money. Why is she any different?

But yes, to agree with you, the jobs offered should have into account that she's a single mother and help if the salary is not enough.

On top of that, I'd stop paying benefits to girls who've had kids being teenagers once the kids are older than 4, if the girls are not underage anymore and don't show that they want to work.
(, Thu 17 Jun 2010, 15:55, Reply)
No they shouldn't
why should a job take into account single mother status? Should married women not be allowed to use creches? Or apply for flexible working hours? If the salary isn't enough, then they'll have to cope or find a better job not be additionally compensated.
(, Thu 17 Jun 2010, 15:57, Reply)
If you're married
means that between you and your husband can get organized to look after the kid, but if you're single, it's only you, so it should be taken into account.
(, Thu 17 Jun 2010, 16:15, Reply)
not really
that's not work's problem. If two married people both have a job, then what? Should the wife stay at home and look after her baby, because her husband has a job? Or should they both take part time work?

It's a choice to have a baby, and while I think employers should be cognisant and supportive of *anyone* having a child, I don't think other people shouldn't have to go out of their way to accommodate the fact that the baby is being raised by a single parent (male or female)
(, Thu 17 Jun 2010, 16:18, Reply)
Oh, I see our mistake
I don't think the job has to understand anything, they're there to make money. No money, no job.

No, I mean, the jobseeker, whoever does it, should take into account that she's trying and she's a single mother before just cutting all the benefits.

And anyway, if a couple has a baby, they do choose to do sacrifices for the child. One of them, usually the mother, stops working for a while, and after that, they need to agree turns to pick the kids from school and take him to the doctor. One of them will probably see a reduction in the salary.

If you're single and with a baby (and not all the time is voluntary) you can't afford agreeing with anyone to help you looking after him/her.
(, Thu 17 Jun 2010, 16:26, Reply)
School for a 4 year old is about 3-4 hours a day, moving up to about 6 -7 hours as they get older
so it's either child care or flexible working, and you tell me what job allows you to turn up about 9.30 after dropping the kids off and then leave 2.5 hours later to pick them up?
(, Thu 17 Jun 2010, 15:58, Reply)
£30,000 when you have two or three or more kids isn't very much at all.
Especially if you are living in London or the South East.
(, Thu 17 Jun 2010, 15:49, Reply)
Really?
I wonder who normal workers do, then, because there are not a lot of jobs for more than that.
(, Thu 17 Jun 2010, 15:57, Reply)
What?
There are plenty of jobs paying more than £15K. As I said below working for £15K a year is not a well paid job by any means.
(, Thu 17 Jun 2010, 16:16, Reply)
I was thinking of a single parent having £30,000

(, Thu 17 Jun 2010, 16:32, Reply)
'cancel all child benefit and tax credits for households with income over £30000'
seems a mite unfair to me
(, Thu 17 Jun 2010, 15:49, Reply)
Bollocks
you think it's a great idea, and you also support going round their houses and kicking them in the cunt once a week.
(, Thu 17 Jun 2010, 15:51, Reply)
well yeah
but I can't just say that can I?

But seriously though, your point above is wellmade. Child benefit should not be an income linked payment. That's just unfair.

Benefits need to be reformed, and quickly. But not just cut, just shifted in focus to encourage people to work, rather than simply have more children, or live off the state
(, Thu 17 Jun 2010, 15:54, Reply)
But it's not that simple
you can't encourage people to work just by cutting their benefits, there have to be jobs for them to do, and right now in the UK the number of jobs is pretty slim, and the number of decent jobs is even slimmer, it's one thing to say people should get off their arse and work, but some people have higher aspirations than just cleaning toilets or working a checkout.

I think some welfare reform is required, but it's not going to solve the problem on it's own unless money is put into a job creation base.
(, Thu 17 Jun 2010, 15:57, Reply)
You might have more aspirations
But if you need the money, you do whatever you have to do. And we're talking about showing interest in finding a job, at least. Stop spending the day drinking beer and doing nothing.
(, Thu 17 Jun 2010, 15:59, Reply)
higher aspirations?
I'll remember that, next time I have to work in the summer. I won't do anything like clean or waitress, I'll wait until something that suits my talents becomes available.

Job creation is needed true. But more than that, there needs to be reforms where it is not made an option to simply live on benefits for your whole life. You can say cutting benefits doesn't work, but it'll make the people who are working to fund a lifestyle, happier about it
(, Thu 17 Jun 2010, 16:00, Reply)
RIght
That's a stupid facetious response. If you are looking for a stop gap job between studies then you take a stop gap unskilled job. If however you have had a kid and are trying to get back into work and you have a degree but there aren't many jobs available in your preferred field then I'm saying you shouldn't force people into menial unskilled jobs just so a bunch of uninformed daily mail readers can feel better about themselves.

I did say welfare reform is required, but it's not going to actually solve the problem of long term unemployment on it's own.
(, Thu 17 Jun 2010, 16:07, Reply)
not really it isn't
we both know, that frankly it's not the people with decent degrees who genuinely want to get back into work that are the problem.

It's the people with shit degrees from shit places who stayed in university to delay the inevitable, or those who don't have any qualifications at all, no desire to get any or indeed to get a job who are the drain.

Calling me a daily mail reader isn't solving anything or refuting any points. I've already stated that both job creation, and better management of apprenticeship programs and better support from school-to-work is necessary. But it's not going to do anything if you don't solve the problem of the real system drains- those who don't want to do anything unless they're forced into it
(, Thu 17 Jun 2010, 16:12, Reply)
I like the way you change verbs there
...If you want to take a gap...
...If you have a kid...

These days, 90% of the times you have a kid because you want or because you haven't been careful enough. Why do I have to pay for your errors or luxuries?

I wanted to have kids since I was 24, and here I am, at 30, no babies, because I couldn't afford them.
(, Thu 17 Jun 2010, 16:19, Reply)
Why do I have to pay for your errors or luxuries?
Because in thirty five years time it will be those errors and luxuries that are supporting you, and whose taxes will be paying for your pension.
(, Thu 17 Jun 2010, 16:35, Reply)
I am not sure about that
And I hope for your own good that you are not relying on that and are paying for a good private pension.
(, Thu 17 Jun 2010, 16:38, Reply)
It's not just pensions, who will pay for the NHS that the aging population will need?

(, Thu 17 Jun 2010, 16:49, Reply)
In that case
See Amberl's answer below.
(, Thu 17 Jun 2010, 16:53, Reply)
It's a point that needs addressing
but if you read through the discussion, I think you'll find we're addressing more specifically the families who choose to live on welfare and bring their children up in the same way. I doubt they're going to be supporting anyone
(, Thu 17 Jun 2010, 16:40, Reply)
Fair point, I was speaking more generally.
However these children do exist. You and I are already "supporting them" by paying for their state education, social services, etc. Also supporting the children must at least give them the chance to become contributing members of society.
(, Thu 17 Jun 2010, 16:54, Reply)
Yes
And we can't just cut all the benefits overnight, as they childs would be in trouble, rather than the parents. But the system needs to be modified to make sure that parents are trying to improve their and their kids lives.
(, Thu 17 Jun 2010, 16:55, Reply)
^^this
That's one of the reasons I couldn't understand a government letting Rover go under for a measly few million quid, and then bail out banks with billions.

Rover, hate or, well...dislike them, did create jobs, and sold cars that were made by people with those jobs.

I don't know the stats of how many workers from that plant are still unemployed but I bet it's a fair few.

It's about time we started investing in our country again, for as far as I can tell, we make very little - the only, ahem, industry we had left that bought in serious money was the banking/investment industry - and look what happens when a sole industry has a monopolistic hold over a country.

It's the reason companies build themselves into groups of companies - if one part of their business is failing, then the others prop it up.

That way, we might actually have jobs that people feel good about as opposed to wiping the arses of MPs or 'working' for a council.
(, Fri 18 Jun 2010, 9:03, Reply)
Exactly that
You tell a teenager that she has a baby and she doesn't need to work in all her live, and what do you think she's going to do?
(, Thu 17 Jun 2010, 15:58, Reply)
Disagree here
a couple earning 15k each with kids and a mortgage aren't as well off as you may think.
(, Thu 17 Jun 2010, 15:54, Reply)
A couple earning 15K each are on fucking badly paid jobs
and won't be able to afford anything like a decent standard of living.
(, Thu 17 Jun 2010, 16:11, Reply)
Exactly
so cutting their tax credits and child benefit would be pretty shit.
(, Thu 17 Jun 2010, 16:14, Reply)
Quite

(, Thu 17 Jun 2010, 16:19, Reply)
Then
They shouldn't have kids. That's it. End of the story. Wait until you can give them what they need.
(, Thu 17 Jun 2010, 16:21, Reply)
Oh please just fuck off with your stupid reactionary attitude
Society works when people help each other, if you throw everyone who needs help on the scrapheap you end up fucking yourself over.
(, Thu 17 Jun 2010, 16:25, Reply)
I help them if they help themselves
As I said, if they prove they're trying to improve, get a better job or a job at all, then yes, we should help them. If they're doing nothing, money help is not help. It's making them lazy.
(, Thu 17 Jun 2010, 16:34, Reply)
When my wife and I had our daughter our combined income was less than 30k
but our child has never gone without and we have given her everything she needs. Yes tax credits have helped and so has child benefit but seriously read what Al just said and presume I agree.
(, Thu 17 Jun 2010, 16:42, Reply)
Well, you were under 30k, so no real discussion there
I agree help should be given when prove both parents are doing their best, but not in any other case.
(, Thu 17 Jun 2010, 16:48, Reply)
yes but just under 30k
isn't much different to just over.
(, Thu 17 Jun 2010, 16:57, Reply)
Ties with my two 'best friends'

(, Thu 17 Jun 2010, 15:49, Reply)
what have I done!?!

(, Thu 17 Jun 2010, 15:50, Reply)
Not you sunshine!!!
I meant my IRL BFFs, not my weirdy beardy BFF
(, Thu 17 Jun 2010, 15:51, Reply)
oooohhh that sounds like gossip.

(, Thu 17 Jun 2010, 15:51, Reply)
Did you just wrap your cardy tighter and adjust your bosoms?

(, Thu 17 Jun 2010, 15:52, Reply)
He popped them on the fence
to take the weight off his back.
(, Thu 17 Jun 2010, 15:52, Reply)
I saw that

(, Thu 17 Jun 2010, 15:52, Reply)
Look djtrailprice was very drunk last weekend
It was really all my fault, he wouldn't have done it if I hadn't encouraged him so really it's my fault, don't blame him, he loves you really, he told me so.
(, Thu 17 Jun 2010, 15:52, Reply)
You can't even spell his name right,
you homewrecker!
(, Thu 17 Jun 2010, 15:53, Reply)
ah bollocks
He pinched my nipple really hard on Saturday.
(, Thu 17 Jun 2010, 16:00, Reply)
Yeah
With his teeth.
Pair of sluts.
(, Thu 17 Jun 2010, 16:06, Reply)
the heads off anyone who irritates me
that is quite a lot of people today...
(, Thu 17 Jun 2010, 15:56, Reply)
Are you coming to the pub tomorrow?

(, Thu 17 Jun 2010, 15:59, Reply)
She fucking better be,

(, Thu 17 Jun 2010, 16:09, Reply)
well with such charming silky smooth persuasion
is it any wonder that i have no choice but to say........

with massive regret that i can't, as it is my friend's birthday, and she has decided on a spa night, so i will be marauding around in a dressing gown and a face mask from about 6pm........ SORRY!!!!!!!!!

and we are missing the england game......................
(, Thu 17 Jun 2010, 16:13, Reply)
Your friend is a shit,
come out afterwards.
(, Thu 17 Jun 2010, 16:14, Reply)
Your scattergun approach to picking up chicks off the internet is quite impressive.

(, Thu 17 Jun 2010, 16:25, Reply)
me and rswipe go way back.

(, Thu 17 Jun 2010, 16:28, Reply)
Flood defence projects for Weston-Super-Mare

(, Thu 17 Jun 2010, 16:02, Reply)
I agree
if anywhere needs wiping off the map by a flood it's Weston
(, Thu 17 Jun 2010, 16:07, Reply)
Oh bollocks, I thought that would bait you
I had a whole bunch of replies about how the money saved could be put towards some new shoes for your wedding....and a haircut...and guitar lessons...

Pissed on my chips dint'ya
(, Thu 17 Jun 2010, 16:14, Reply)
despite the design being done from my office
I have little to do with it now. I did the flood modelling and the economics assessment
(, Thu 17 Jun 2010, 16:16, Reply)
hahahaha
this made me laugh, my bearded amigo
(, Thu 17 Jun 2010, 16:14, Reply)
ta ;-)

(, Thu 17 Jun 2010, 16:15, Reply)
They need to cut all public spending
privatise everything. Just to see what happens.
(, Thu 17 Jun 2010, 16:05, Reply)
That's what they've been doing since 1979
All that's happened is that everything has got much more expensive, relative to what it was.
(, Thu 17 Jun 2010, 16:42, Reply)
I'd cut the
Ministry of Equality.

WTF? What does it do?

As far as I can tell, there's no equality, and if the female of our species actually had 'equality' they wouldn't like it one little bit.
(, Fri 18 Jun 2010, 8:56, Reply)

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