have you seen
the irish guy who is suing queens because he got a 2:2?

there has got to be a floodgates argument there, every student in the country who doesn't get a first could sue!
( rachelswipe with a fork, Tue 21 Sep 2010, 14:35, 4 replies, latest was 15 years ago)

So his case is
"I deserve compensation because I was too bone idle to work for a 2.1 or first"?

Is there the foggiest chance of that standing up in court?
(LongJohnBaldry, Tue 21 Sep 2010, 14:37, Reply)

short answer, no
long answer, fuck no.
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Tue 21 Sep 2010, 14:43, Reply)

It seems to be that the possible outcomes are:
Win case, receive compensation for inadequate tuition: ~15,000:1
Lose case, be legally recognised as a bone idle whinger: ~3:1
Lose case, and on the grounds that several other people managed to get 2.1s or firsts on the same course, be legally recognised as a bit of a thicky: Dead cert.
(LongJohnBaldry, Tue 21 Sep 2010, 14:45, Reply)

It's a long-term worry, though.
We're looking at putting in place "learning agreements" which state the student and lecturer's respective responsibilities. Fucked-up times.

But, yeah, he's doing more harm to his future employment by doing this then his 2:2 has done. Who the fuck would employ that much of a cunt?
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Tue 21 Sep 2010, 14:48, Reply)

Just how bad is a 2:2?

( Amberl was stripey and dominated Europe, Tue 21 Sep 2010, 14:49, Reply)

I got a 2:2
and I got a job doing exactly what I wanted to do within 8 weeks of graduation. I did apply all over the country though, and I had a lot more on my CV than most of my peers.
(berk, Tue 21 Sep 2010, 14:50, Reply)

Oh dear

( Amberl was stripey and dominated Europe, Tue 21 Sep 2010, 14:52, Reply)

depends on the degree and the university
but in Berk's case, the issue is you can't get funding for a science or engineering PhD unless you get a 2:1.
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Tue 21 Sep 2010, 14:52, Reply)

Not without a masters, anyway
and even they can be a bugger to get if you only have a 2:2
(berk, Tue 21 Sep 2010, 15:05, Reply)

I let people on my MSc course with a 2:2 ....
but, yeah, usually I'd look for something else in the CV to convince me they won't balls it up.
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Tue 21 Sep 2010, 15:17, Reply)

Much as the term "learning agreement" sounds like some irritating management fuckwit buzzword
I appreciate that the lecturers have a responsibility to teach an adequate course and set a fair exam thereupon. I can, however, also see why you need to make the complementary responsibilities clear to the students, as there are some who will just piss three years' education up the wall if you don't keep them in line.

Aside from which, if a lecturer's really that inadequate, surely the students will complain? I was quite reassured to see my own undergraduate department took such complaints quite seriously if enough noise was made at the time.
(LongJohnBaldry, Tue 21 Sep 2010, 14:53, Reply)

Oh fuck, yeah
If we were shit we'd be out on our ear. But, that doesn't apply to all unis (Oxbridge/Russell group are traditionally the worst as they regard teaching as an irritating distraction a lot of the time)

then again, we just came first in the NSS survey this year in my teaching subject so I would say that ;)
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Tue 21 Sep 2010, 14:55, Reply)

Also, to your earlier point
that's what accreditation is about. Decent courses are accredited by the respective professional institutes, and they check teaching, exams, course content, delivery etc. So that covers the lecturer's responsibility mostly.
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Tue 21 Sep 2010, 14:58, Reply)

Good point, I'd forgotten about that!

(LongJohnBaldry, Tue 21 Sep 2010, 14:59, Reply)

Oddly enough it was an ex-Oxford guy who attracted the most complaints on my undergrad course
Apparently it broke records...

(Though to be fair, in the end he did respond to certain requests from the department and actually set a very reasonable exam at the end of the year)
(LongJohnBaldry, Tue 21 Sep 2010, 14:58, Reply)

most of them want to do research
though in fairness bar one person I have had exceptional teaching and committment from my tutors, including one who if you were at all into Classics/Ancient History you'd know the name of, so technically she should be the worst
( Amberl was stripey and dominated Europe, Tue 21 Sep 2010, 15:03, Reply)

I moved from UCL to a "less old School" Uni 4 years ago, to start my own research group
Although I'm mostly employed to do research, that's the exception rather than the norm here, so I still had to do the equivalent of a PGCE for lecturers part-time over 2 years, and there are movements to make that a requirement, same as schoolteachers. But, again, Russell group are blocking it.
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Tue 21 Sep 2010, 15:05, Reply)

Of course they are.
Whilst it does give me a wonderful veneer of smug to be able to tell people I'm based at a Russell Group uni (another croissant, please, dear boy), the people who run them frequently come across a bunch of phenomenally arrogant cunts.

On that note, is it Queen's Belfast this cunt's suing? I notice they're also Russell Group...
"CUNTS VS CUNT: Whoever wins...they're still a cunt."
(LongJohnBaldry, Tue 21 Sep 2010, 15:08, Reply)

It's like arguing on the internet
..whoever wins, everyone loses ....

*passes croissant*

I'm not against Russell Group - hell, UCL made my research career - but they currently seem to think they can control a lot of things by going "ah, but we're good, so what we says goes"
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Tue 21 Sep 2010, 15:12, Reply)

Yes, so am I
it surprised me just how massively cliquey and pompous academics are.
(berk, Tue 21 Sep 2010, 15:13, Reply)

I know, it's like /OT in real life...

(LongJohnBaldry, Tue 21 Sep 2010, 15:16, Reply)

he is arguing that he did not get proper supervision
unless he can prove that he worked his arse off for 3 years but was taught the wrong stuff i should have thought that he would have difficulty succeeding!
( rachelswipe with a fork, Tue 21 Sep 2010, 14:46, Reply)

Surely the first counter-argument is going to be all the people who got 2.1s and firsts,
in spite of the lack of "proper supervision"?

This guy has clearly not thought it through and is just trying it on. I've had students whinge about their marks before, but usually they draw the line at just whinging to you rather than taking it to court for all the country to laugh at them.
(LongJohnBaldry, Tue 21 Sep 2010, 14:49, Reply)

^ this
surely he received the same tuition as everyone else on his course, so unless they all failed too, he hasn't got a leg to stand on.
(berk, Tue 21 Sep 2010, 14:49, Reply)

he's arguing supervision rather than teaching
as presumably others on the course achieved better results making the teaching argument flawed. But poor personal supervision could only be used as an argument if he could prove his tutor had ignored a personal issue such as health or welfare, which affected his performance.

If he could have proved that, he would have succeeded in internal appeal at the Uni. Assuming he has appealed internally, of course, because if not, that means he doesn't actually want a higher grade but just wants money, which would make him even more of an utter cunt.
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Tue 21 Sep 2010, 14:52, Reply)

The most important point you raise with this
is that, whichever way you spin it, however hard you try to argue it from his perspective, the guy comes across as an utter cunt.
(LongJohnBaldry, Tue 21 Sep 2010, 14:56, Reply)

true.

( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Tue 21 Sep 2010, 14:59, Reply)

Fucking stupid padraigs.

( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Tue 21 Sep 2010, 14:59, Reply)

i wanna know what love is
and i want you to show me...
( rachelswipe with a fork, Tue 21 Sep 2010, 15:01, Reply)

Nope, don't get it
or are you just straight up propositioning Montague?
(Zoz prayed for twink on, Tue 21 Sep 2010, 15:20, Reply)

i was just singing
if he wants to take it as a proposition, i am open to offers.
( rachelswipe with a fork, Tue 21 Sep 2010, 15:25, Reply)

I'm going to start preparing already
I seriously doubt I'll even get a 2:1
( Amberl was stripey and dominated Europe, Tue 21 Sep 2010, 14:37, Reply)

I've bet my brother a grand I'll get a first.
I have just thrown a grand away.
( SteveFrench Cardio is for homo's. do you even lift bro?, Tue 21 Sep 2010, 14:42, Reply)

I'll bet you my house against your kidneys
you don't even get a 2:1
( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Tue 21 Sep 2010, 15:00, Reply)

I only have one kidney but I'll take that bet. I will get a 2:1. Or a 1st.
How much or what do you want to wager?
( SteveFrench Cardio is for homo's. do you even lift bro?, Tue 21 Sep 2010, 15:02, Reply)

He's got no chance
Or, at least, unless his Uni are idiots. We have way too much protection in place to ensure that our marking is backed up.

If his case is that he was not taught well enough then he's not got a legal leg to stand on.
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Tue 21 Sep 2010, 14:42, Reply)

I have
and he should have pulled his fucking finger out. If he'd put as much effort in to doing that as he currently is doing in to whining about it, he'd have got a 2:1 with ease. I sincerely hope he doesn't win.
(berk, Tue 21 Sep 2010, 14:43, Reply)