How about people who are out of work altogether?

( Kroney, Fri 12 Nov 2010, 11:42, 2 replies, latest was 15 years ago)

death

( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Fri 12 Nov 2010, 11:43, Reply)

By firing squad
for daring to be unlucky in work.
( Kroney, Fri 12 Nov 2010, 11:44, Reply)

on the plus side
they could always volunteer to join the firing squads
( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Fri 12 Nov 2010, 11:44, Reply)

Yeah, I mean, the murder gets to me a bit but, you know, it's paying the bills, a job's a job.

( Noeli overtheshoulderboulderholderthingstraplatchboobs, Fri 12 Nov 2010, 11:48, Reply)

depends why
if they have been out of work for ages, are trying really hard but getting nowhere, fine. if they have just never bothered, like my friend's cousins who at 25, 23 and 21 have all been on the dole and the DHS since they were 18 (one has 4 children. FOUR), then i'd not give them a penny until they did something worthwhile for it.
( rachelswipe with a fork, Fri 12 Nov 2010, 11:43, Reply)

does worthwhile including killing themselves?

( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Fri 12 Nov 2010, 11:44, Reply)

that's for a case by case assessment
yes if they are ugly
( rachelswipe with a fork, Fri 12 Nov 2010, 11:46, Reply)

Then we are agreed
Debate is fun!
( Kroney, Fri 12 Nov 2010, 11:44, Reply)

What if they don't have an education Swipey?
What if they have been deemed unemployable because the education system has let them down, they weren't given the support they needed at the time, all the FE colleges were criminally underfunded and there are no apprenticeships anymore?
What if, and this it the most important point, there are a completely insufficent number of fucking jobs out there for all the unemployed people?
(Bazongaloid, Fri 12 Nov 2010, 11:46, Reply)

fine in theory and on an individual basis
but the problem is that the country simply can't afford to support too many people. it will run out of money. esp as those who are paying taxes at higher rates will get fed up and take their skills elsewhere.

i don't know what the solution is, but for a start, someone needs to din it into the heads of the little shits who don't appreciate what an amazing gift our education system is that education is one of the most important things they will ever have! it's not cool to get shit grades, it's not cool to skip school, it's not cool to sign on your whole life long and for your kids to do the same.
( rachelswipe with a fork, Fri 12 Nov 2010, 11:50, Reply)

that's why a system of murder and groin-punching
is the only workable solution
( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Fri 12 Nov 2010, 11:56, Reply)

it does make sense
i'm in
( rachelswipe with a fork, Fri 12 Nov 2010, 11:59, Reply)

But swipey
We don't have any jobs for people who don't have an education, and the reason everyone is being forced into university is because there is no vocational alternative.

It's typical Tory dogma, cut everything as you should be able to support yourself. Now, if you already have an education, then yes, you probably can support yourself, but you can't just switch from having a government supported populace to having a self supporting populace in a year.

If you want people to get a job, there have to be jobs for them to get, and there simply aren't. If you want people with no education to get jobs when they eventually are created, you have to educate them. It's not a difficult concept.
(Bazongaloid, Fri 12 Nov 2010, 11:59, Reply)

the problem with this, like all liberal arguments
is that it assumes everybody is happy to be educated and to work at the end of it. and the problem is... that a lot of people aren't!

so a system which is designed to help people in need gets raped, and you end up with a minority supporting the majority, and getting pretty pissed off with it.
( rachelswipe with a fork, Fri 12 Nov 2010, 12:09, Reply)

It's this attitude that a "minority" are supporting the majority, they aren't. Most people in this country are in work, and if they are in work they are paying taxes which support all teh things we like to have like roads and education and healthcare.

You argue that I'm assuming that everyone is happy to be educated and that actually most people aren't, but that's also clearly an exaggeration.

The education system is in need of help, but the solution is not to suddenly punish people for not helping themselves, at the moment they have no choice, you have to give people an opportunity to help themselves before you can start cracking down on people who really don't want to help themselves.
(Bazongaloid, Fri 12 Nov 2010, 12:16, Reply)

fine
but they've had since ww2 when the benefits system was introduced.

it isn't ever going to work as you say, and as it should do, is it?!
( rachelswipe with a fork, Fri 12 Nov 2010, 12:23, Reply)

That's a stupidly spurious comment from you Swipey
Lots of people used to have manual jobs, but, thanks to the complete destruction of manufacturing in this country, those people had their lives destroyed and were either put on benefits or signed off "sick".

There is no short term fix to this problem, but the Tories aren't trying to fix it, they are just using the world wide economic crisis as an excuse for giving "the poor" a good kicking.
(Bazongaloid, Fri 12 Nov 2010, 12:30, Reply)

If Labour had an ounce of sense, they would have cut back on benefits as well.
The country owes 4.3 trillion pounds. At the same time, you can claim housing benefit even if you do actually have a job. Not a menial job either, a decent one. Councils are having to buy huge houses to home people in because the law requires that each child has its own bedroom.

The benefits system needs to be in place. The benefits system we currently have is too open to abuse in a manner we can no longer afford as a country.
( Kroney, Fri 12 Nov 2010, 12:39, Reply)