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# Is that a photo or a drawing?
Either way...

(I helped save b3ta! Wobbly Bloke Hello, did I miss anything on, Sun 15 May 2011, 9:33, archived)
# thanks bwoy!
tis a very heavily baked HDR (photo) :)
(duts Optimus whut?, Sun 15 May 2011, 9:36, archived)
# I think my problem with heavy HDR
is that it crosses the line from photography into art. But I guess it will just be one of those things that other people like and I don't. Like dogs, or small children.
(I helped save b3ta! The Coast Of Yemen, Sun 15 May 2011, 9:38, archived)
# no I totally agree - it's easy to see why alot of people hate it, especially photographers
I like it because it makes stuff look like Silent Hill :)
(duts Optimus whut?, Sun 15 May 2011, 9:41, archived)
# are you saying photography
isn't art?

*prepares to get on high horse*
(I helped save b3ta! Citizen Cavy Admires your passion for conformity, Sun 15 May 2011, 9:56, archived)
# yeah, it's just pressing a button




*runs*
(I helped save b3ta! Mighty Nibus who dares gins | @nibus, Sun 15 May 2011, 9:58, archived)
# *clambers onto unnaturally high horse*
(I helped save b3ta! Citizen Cavy Admires your passion for conformity, Sun 15 May 2011, 10:00, archived)
# :o
What's the weather like up there?
(I helped save b3ta! Rocker_44 (-_-) shhhhh! Is asleep on, Sun 15 May 2011, 10:02, archived)
# /shouts
what's that? I can't quite hear you for this cloud in my ear
(I helped save b3ta! Citizen Cavy Admires your passion for conformity, Sun 15 May 2011, 10:08, archived)
# I said,
...what's th... oh never mind. Cheerio!
(I helped save b3ta! Rocker_44 (-_-) shhhhh! Is asleep on, Sun 15 May 2011, 10:32, archived)
# I don't know, I'm not much of a philosopher
and I'm certainly not trying to force my beliefs on anyone (or even myself).

But I always feel a little cheated when a photo has been excessively altered, but still passed off as photography. There's a little voice in my head that goes "oh - so it didn't actually look like that?".

But at the same time I think long exposure shots that reveal what your eyes can't see are the fucking best thing ever.
(I helped save b3ta! The Coast Of Yemen, Sun 15 May 2011, 10:16, archived)
# photography may be a thing which
resembles objects in the real world, but they are always constructions even with 'straight' photography. You have to consider the photographer made choices at every point, even to press the button at all. Your average photograph doesn't even represent the contrasts and lighting as we, as humans, see them, since our eyes and brain are far more sophisticated and complicated than CCDs or chemicals, and all HDR is is an extension of that.

Photography as an art form is far wider and nebulous than most people realise. Pigeon-holes are meant to be broken out of and rules are there for the bending.

Thus ends my Sunday Lecture
(I helped save b3ta! Citizen Cavy Admires your passion for conformity, Sun 15 May 2011, 10:21, archived)
# the difference being it's done, at the time, with a camera
as opposed to done later with photoshop.
not that i'm saying it's a bad thing
(I helped save b3ta! real i'm not happy 'til you're not happy, Sun 15 May 2011, 10:26, archived)
# Does this make a real difference?
Many people will cite Ansel Adams and his mates as 'real' photographers who didn't arse around with pictures (like the pictorialists who mashed up pictures from loads of negatives), but he spent hours adjusting, burning, dodging, etc. his images in the darkroom.


edit for clarity: this is an example of Pictorialism, it's made up of a shit load of negatives. All this Photoshop shit ain't new
www.codex99.com/photography/images/rejlander_lg.jpg
(I helped save b3ta! Citizen Cavy Admires your passion for conformity, Sun 15 May 2011, 10:31, archived)
# i don't know what you are saying there, but it sounds like a contradiction
(I helped save b3ta! real i'm not happy 'til you're not happy, Sun 15 May 2011, 10:35, archived)
# My point is that
photographs have always had 'post-production' done to them to various degrees (ie darkroom stuff, messing with the photo itself) and so the argument that Photoshop stops an image being a 'proper' photograph isn't completely valid. I will agree that the lines between photography and graphic arts are now VERY blurred, but in any form of art being able to fit things into categories is not always the most useful or productive thing
(I helped save b3ta! Citizen Cavy Admires your passion for conformity, Sun 15 May 2011, 10:38, archived)
# i will forever more refer to myself as a photographer
edited because it sounded pointlessly argumental
(I helped save b3ta! real i'm not happy 'til you're not happy, Sun 15 May 2011, 10:45, archived)
# No, I think the argument about the
status of photography/art is not useful or productive. I just disagree with where you place your distinction and your reason for it
(I helped save b3ta! Citizen Cavy Admires your passion for conformity, Sun 15 May 2011, 10:49, archived)
# ah, you replied
non of this makes sense now
however, i never intended to be productive when i expressed my opinion and i'm sure most photographers wouldn't give two hoots what i thought about post production.
my opinion is, for clarification, photography: pics developed as the pic was taken.
pic manipulation is not photography
(I helped save b3ta! real i'm not happy 'til you're not happy, Sun 15 May 2011, 10:51, archived)
# the keyword there is "developed"....
the darkroom developing process will always affect the final image to some degree (colour, contrast etc) with the developer manipulating these factors in order to produce the developers desired result.

doing it in photoshop is no different in that respect.
(duts Optimus whut?, Sun 15 May 2011, 11:14, archived)
# only to a certain degree though
my point is art is art, whatever it is, including phtography.
photgraphy is a photograph. if it has to be edited with a computer it's simply no longer a photograph
(I helped save b3ta! real i'm not happy 'til you're not happy, Sun 15 May 2011, 11:22, archived)
# i sorta agree with the other dude...
but i really liked this sentence. :D

*cleeeeek*
(I helped save b3ta! arrangedletters, Sun 15 May 2011, 12:46, archived)
# I heard him and his mates,
Used to get high on developer and blaze zoots in the darkrooms.
(I helped save b3ta! Rocker_44 (-_-) shhhhh! Is asleep on, Sun 15 May 2011, 10:37, archived)
# blazing zoots in front of photoshop is much safer :)
(duts Optimus whut?, Sun 15 May 2011, 10:41, archived)
# where's your sense of adventure man!
;)
(I helped save b3ta! Rocker_44 (-_-) shhhhh! Is asleep on, Sun 15 May 2011, 11:23, archived)
# those guys were MENTAL
people think F64 was named after the aperture setting but really it was named after their notoriously big 64 skin spliffs
(I helped save b3ta! Citizen Cavy Admires your passion for conformity, Sun 15 May 2011, 10:41, archived)
# balanced it on the dogs head.
(I helped save b3ta! Rocker_44 (-_-) shhhhh! Is asleep on, Sun 15 May 2011, 11:17, archived)
# I didn't take any notes, is that a problem?
But, you're right - of course you're right.
(I helped save b3ta! The Coast Of Yemen, Sun 15 May 2011, 10:29, archived)
# Just make sure you hand your essay
and final images in to faculty office by 3pm, tomorrow
(I helped save b3ta! Citizen Cavy Admires your passion for conformity, Sun 15 May 2011, 10:32, archived)
# If it looks good, isn't that enough?
(I helped save b3ta! Photoshop Bitch 2014 edition, Sun 15 May 2011, 10:25, archived)
# or this
(I helped save b3ta! Citizen Cavy Admires your passion for conformity, Sun 15 May 2011, 10:32, archived)
# dear god! really?
(I helped save b3ta! real i'm not happy 'til you're not happy, Sun 15 May 2011, 10:41, archived)
# in some ways, yes.
some art is made for aesthetic reasons, is it really important to justify which category it fits in?

edit: also it's sunday and this is a lot like being at work
(I helped save b3ta! Citizen Cavy Admires your passion for conformity, Sun 15 May 2011, 10:43, archived)
# i just find the "If it looks good, isn't that enough?" really, really, loathsome
(I helped save b3ta! real i'm not happy 'til you're not happy, Sun 15 May 2011, 10:48, archived)
# But art is for many different reasons and some of them
are about hanging something nice on your wall.

However, I realise I'm mostly devil's-advocating here since I'm more of a fan of more deeply conceptual art stuff. Wow, I'm pretentious.
(I helped save b3ta! Citizen Cavy Admires your passion for conformity, Sun 15 May 2011, 10:52, archived)
# you appear to feel quite strongly about it, for a devil's advocate
i really don't care at all, i know nothing about art, apart from the cliched, i know what i like. For me, art is about being something to enjoy, or to provoke emotions.
photos and photoshop (amongst many other media) both do that for me
(I helped save b3ta! real i'm not happy 'til you're not happy, Sun 15 May 2011, 11:04, archived)
# Were you heavily baked on your adventure?
/rememberedyousmokeblog
(I helped save b3ta! Whato_Jeeves Did your surgery require a vaginal mesh patch?, Sun 15 May 2011, 10:33, archived)
# always haha!
(duts Optimus whut?, Sun 15 May 2011, 10:41, archived)