One must laugh at the politicians calling environmentalists selfish and misguided.
brb Learn Ukrainian and prepare for a referendum,
Wed 26 Oct 2022, 13:52,
archived)
I'm sure all of those fast lane COVID contracts rendered awesome results
(,
Wed 26 Oct 2022, 14:00,
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Of course they did, have you seen the change to some company's profit margins and director's income?
I just couldn't pivot my web company to an NHS overall supply company fast enoughGoddamn it
(,
Wed 26 Oct 2022, 14:05,
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If you think you want to effect real change in society either: get into politics, work your way up through the ranks until your dreams are crushed into nothingness by the glacial system you find yourself trapped in. Or glue your hands to a tube train and achieve nothing beyond making several thousand commuters late for work. In the US, option 3 is get out your assault rifle down the mall, but don't even make the local news because you didn't achieve enough kills before SWAT took you down.
(
Turtle Power & Knuckles,
Wed 26 Oct 2022, 14:03,
archived)
One must admire the lack of awarenesswhen people publicly declare that the environmentalists' actions have achieved nothing.
( brb Learn Ukrainian and prepare for a referendum,
Wed 26 Oct 2022, 14:46,
archived)
Okay, it has achieved increased police powers to clamp down on environmental demonstrations.Was that really the intention?
( Turtle Power & Knuckles,
Wed 26 Oct 2022, 15:10,
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It has increased public awareness, as demonstrated by all the people parroting your argument who would otherwise be complaining about brown people in dinghies/the royal family/ Downing Street, etc.The police already had the powers they need to move protestors out of the way of ambulances and whatnot.
( brb Learn Ukrainian and prepare for a referendum,
Wed 26 Oct 2022, 15:35,
archived)
People who think green protesting, while ideologically sound, is pretty futile because the power to change anything resides with those who won't = Racists
(
Turtle Power & Knuckles,
Wed 26 Oct 2022, 15:46,
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If you say so.My point is that your argument is a standard Daily Mail/TalkSport/GBeebies style right wing talking point. Being upset at brown people is just an accurate shorthand describing that mindset.
People who think green protesting, while ideologically sound, is pretty futile because the power to change anything resides with those who won't = people who are easily swayed by right wing populism and consistently vote according to their regressive biases.
(People who think green protesting, while ideologically sound, is pretty futile because the power to change anything resides with those who won't = people who are easily swayed by right wing populism and consistently vote according to their regressive biases.
brb Learn Ukrainian and prepare for a referendum,
Wed 26 Oct 2022, 16:02,
archived)
I wish you'd learn to effectively communicate ideas.It's like Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra with you.
( brb Learn Ukrainian and prepare for a referendum,
Wed 26 Oct 2022, 17:54,
archived)
The prevalent use of strawmen in your arguments makes you sound as brainless as a scarecrow? Something like that I think. 
mofaha ┐( ˘_˘)┌ ʅ(́◡◝)ʃ,
Wed 26 Oct 2022, 18:23,
archived)
Can you quote the part where I use a straw man?I must be blind to it.
In my experience, people who complain about imaginary straw men are often attempting to shift the argument away from the actual topic, which, to remind you, is the irony of complaining about environmentalists being selfish.
(In my experience, people who complain about imaginary straw men are often attempting to shift the argument away from the actual topic, which, to remind you, is the irony of complaining about environmentalists being selfish.
brb Learn Ukrainian and prepare for a referendum,
Wed 26 Oct 2022, 19:00,
archived)
Yes, you must be blind to it. So it's no use pointing it out directly, is it. mofaha ┐( ˘_˘)┌ ʅ(́◡◝)ʃ,
Wed 26 Oct 2022, 19:07,
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I understand what a straw man is, and I don't think I've used one today, I've asked you to show it to me and you've chosen to just insult me instead.Perhaps pointless online arguments just aren't for you?
( brb Learn Ukrainian and prepare for a referendum,
Wed 26 Oct 2022, 19:32,
archived)
I always thought this was a puerile digital arts community. I must've been wrong.
(
Chumps 👀,
Wed 26 Oct 2022, 19:33,
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No this is a place for Very Serious Discussions about politics and today's pressing issues
and wee and poo
(and wee and poo
Turtle Power & Knuckles,
Wed 26 Oct 2022, 19:40,
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Puerile art can provoke serious discussion, you know. brb Learn Ukrainian and prepare for a referendum,
Wed 26 Oct 2022, 20:34,
archived)
No, they're not, and you can't afford the time, given all those daily mail readers you need to keep up with, to name just a few. 🥷🏻 blah
( mofaha ┐( ˘_˘)┌ ʅ(́◡◝)ʃ,
Wed 26 Oct 2022, 19:42,
archived)
I like to argue for fun and can do so without getting upset online, incorrectly identifying logical fallacies, or making shit up.I honestly wish that your delusions were real, but sadly it is common knowledge that the Daily Heil is a right wing rag:
"In news that will surprise very few, the Daily Mail is seen as Britain’s most right-wing newspaper. Britain’s most read newspaper is described by 44% of Brits as “very right-wing”, far ahead of any other paper. In total, 81% considered the paper to be right-wing to one degree or another."
yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2017/03/07/how-left-or-right-wing-are-uks-newspapers
...And that right wing populism is strongly associated with climate denial:
"In this paper, we explore the possibility that right wing populism and anti-elitist attitudes fuel both ACC denial and low trust in environmental institutions. We surveyed a representative sample of Norwegians (N = 3032) to measure ACC denial, how denial is linked to socio-demographic characteristics, trust in environmental institutions, attitudes toward elites and immigration, as well as environmental attitude orientations. Results show that lack of trust in environmental institutions is strongly associated with ACC denial, and furthermore that the degree of trust—or lack thereof—is partly a function of anti-elitist attitudes, opposition to migration and views of nature."
www.nature.com/articles/s41599-021-00930-7
You can prove anything with facts.
("In news that will surprise very few, the Daily Mail is seen as Britain’s most right-wing newspaper. Britain’s most read newspaper is described by 44% of Brits as “very right-wing”, far ahead of any other paper. In total, 81% considered the paper to be right-wing to one degree or another."
yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2017/03/07/how-left-or-right-wing-are-uks-newspapers
...And that right wing populism is strongly associated with climate denial:
"In this paper, we explore the possibility that right wing populism and anti-elitist attitudes fuel both ACC denial and low trust in environmental institutions. We surveyed a representative sample of Norwegians (N = 3032) to measure ACC denial, how denial is linked to socio-demographic characteristics, trust in environmental institutions, attitudes toward elites and immigration, as well as environmental attitude orientations. Results show that lack of trust in environmental institutions is strongly associated with ACC denial, and furthermore that the degree of trust—or lack thereof—is partly a function of anti-elitist attitudes, opposition to migration and views of nature."
www.nature.com/articles/s41599-021-00930-7
You can prove anything with facts.
brb Learn Ukrainian and prepare for a referendum,
Wed 26 Oct 2022, 20:23,
archived)
It must be past your bedtime. brb Learn Ukrainian and prepare for a referendum,
Wed 26 Oct 2022, 21:05,
archived)
You sometimes like to put people you have an issue with, into the same group as raciststo make it easier to dismiss them and their predictable views. Like it is easy to do when declaring a bunch of individuals to be "gammons", "boomers" or "millennials".
( Turtle Power & Knuckles,
Wed 26 Oct 2022, 19:46,
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That's fair.Absolutely not what a straw man is though. ;)
( brb Learn Ukrainian and prepare for a referendum,
Wed 26 Oct 2022, 20:06,
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See proof of your absolute wrongness above (below your ninja edited post).Your assertion that I'm employing straw men is actually, I'm sad* to say, an argument from ignorance on your part.
*Delighted.
(*Delighted.
brb Learn Ukrainian and prepare for a referendum,
Wed 26 Oct 2022, 20:26,
archived)
You often make generalizations based on your biases and then draw conclusions based on those generalizations. You do it often and publicly. Expect some pushback occasionally.
( mofaha ┐( ˘_˘)┌ ʅ(́◡◝)ʃ,
Wed 26 Oct 2022, 20:49,
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You could say the same for everybody. At least my biases are supported by evidence.In my experience, people who complain about imaginary straw men are often attempting to shift the argument away from the actual topic, which, to remind you, is the irony of complaining about environmentalists being selfish.
( brb Learn Ukrainian and prepare for a referendum,
Wed 26 Oct 2022, 21:03,
archived)
If you don't think what you're doing (in this thread in particular) is engaging in pseudo-complex strawman arguments,then you simply don't understand the concept. And as mofaha said, it's simply pointless trying to engage with you when you're in this headspace, so this is my first and last contribution to this shitshow of a thread.
(,
Wed 26 Oct 2022, 21:49,
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Just to reiterate, I have not employed any straw men, and it is evident that those complaining about imaginary straw men are diverting the argument away from the actual topic.I offer this dictionary definition of straw man in the hope that it might help to educate those persisting in its misuse:
straw man
noun
1. An argument or opponent set up so as to be easily refuted or defeated.
2. A doll or scarecrow (particularly one stuffed with straw).
3. An insubstantial concept, idea, endeavour or argument, particularly one deliberately set up to be weakly supported, so that it can be easily knocked down; especially to impugn the strength of any related thing or idea.
If my argument is pseudo-complex then it should be easy to tear down.
As my argument is actually reality-based simplicity, it was exceptionally easy to find supporting evidence.
Anti-environmentalism is a typically right wing position. This opinion is well grounded in reality and is not just something I made up in order to... ...tear my own argument down..?
Go to the Daily Mail's comment section, look up stories about brown people in dinghies, the royal family, and Downing Street. See what you find. Look at what those same commentators say on the subject of climate change protestors.
It's all so predictable that I find it astonishing to think that anyone here finds this even vaguely controversial.
(straw man
noun
1. An argument or opponent set up so as to be easily refuted or defeated.
2. A doll or scarecrow (particularly one stuffed with straw).
3. An insubstantial concept, idea, endeavour or argument, particularly one deliberately set up to be weakly supported, so that it can be easily knocked down; especially to impugn the strength of any related thing or idea.
If my argument is pseudo-complex then it should be easy to tear down.
As my argument is actually reality-based simplicity, it was exceptionally easy to find supporting evidence.
Anti-environmentalism is a typically right wing position. This opinion is well grounded in reality and is not just something I made up in order to... ...tear my own argument down..?
Go to the Daily Mail's comment section, look up stories about brown people in dinghies, the royal family, and Downing Street. See what you find. Look at what those same commentators say on the subject of climate change protestors.
It's all so predictable that I find it astonishing to think that anyone here finds this even vaguely controversial.
brb Learn Ukrainian and prepare for a referendum,
Wed 26 Oct 2022, 22:20,
archived)
This Venn diagram.<img src="www2.b3ta.com/host/creative/100121/1666631240/I can't be arsed to make this image" width="visible to the ISS">
1. People against protestors gluing themselves to trains and throwing soup about and generally being an arse
2. Mail/Sun readers who comment on all the brown people in are country
See those two circles? They don't occupy exactly the same position. But yes, there is quite an overlap.
(1. People against protestors gluing themselves to trains and throwing soup about and generally being an arse
2. Mail/Sun readers who comment on all the brown people in are country
See those two circles? They don't occupy exactly the same position. But yes, there is quite an overlap.
Turtle Power & Knuckles,
Wed 26 Oct 2022, 23:36,
archived)
^TGGIExcept for the 'generally being an arse' thing. Effective protests attract attention and cause disruption.
( brb Learn Ukrainian and prepare for a referendum,
Thu 27 Oct 2022, 14:19,
archived)
now i know how happy he looks i feel bad for doubting him mofaha ┐( ˘_˘)┌ ʅ(́◡◝)ʃ,
Wed 26 Oct 2022, 20:22,
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The straw man cometh, and the straw man taketh away.Or something like that.
( Chumps 👀,
Wed 26 Oct 2022, 20:25,
archived)