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# is still a bit narced at this
after paying 8000 million in taxes last year
you'd think they'd at least build us somewhere TO smoke

seeing as they only spent 52 mill of that on quiting initiatives
(I helped save b3ta! The King of Hats Cone of shame, Tue 8 May 2007, 16:21, archived)
# I got very annoyed today
reading this
www.forestonline.org/files/pdf/SMOKE,%20LIES%20A4%20v5b.pdf
I know it's propaganda, but the bit about the passive smoking studies is interesting if even vaguely true ....
(I helped save b3ta! Debbilgrrrrl is kinda back, Tue 8 May 2007, 16:23, archived)
# If you read too much of Forest
you end up believing that smoking is good for you
(I helped save b3ta! Griffin Saver Something, something, 2006, something., Tue 8 May 2007, 16:30, archived)
# God bless Joe Jackson for helping give us....
THIS!
(I helped save b3ta! The Great Architect is still waiting for his account to be deleted on, Tue 8 May 2007, 16:30, archived)
# interreesant
I like that.

It presents itself as fair. Must do my own research and decide.
(I helped save b3ta! Mockingbird Practitioner of SCIENCE, Tue 8 May 2007, 16:32, archived)
# here's some research for you:
smoking makes you ill, and makes you smell bad
if you smoke your children will smoke, and become smelly and ill

HOWEVER, lots of things in this world make you smelly and ill, and some make you more ill than cigarettes

cigarettes are not illegal, so treating smokers like criminals is unfair
(I helped save b3ta! mictoboy shitting in your cunt since, Tue 8 May 2007, 16:36, archived)
# ......but all smokers are rapists. Right? Are you with me?
(I helped save b3ta! mugatu, Tue 8 May 2007, 16:36, archived)
# .
www.b3ta.com/board/7166574
(I helped save b3ta! Mockingbird Practitioner of SCIENCE, Tue 8 May 2007, 16:47, archived)
# many of those things that make you smelly and ill
are precisely those things that have regulated maximum levels in the workplace, so as not to expose employees to too high a level of additional risk
(I helped save b3ta! plentyofants more ghee, vicar?, Tue 8 May 2007, 16:40, archived)
# Hmm.
Smoking makes me poor and smelly, and if I do it too much it seems liable to make me ill. I only do it outdoors or when sharing a space with other smokers (e.g. smoking sections of pubs). I avoid doing it over bar staff and others because it's grotty and they aren't given the choice.

At the moment I'm not doing it too much and am successfully training for a charity run without coughing fits or being unable to run more than a mile or two.

If I had kids (god forbid) they wouldn't see me smoke.

On balance I reckon the pleasure I get from it outweighs the negatives (poor, smelly, danger of doom, social pariah-ness in some circles).

By 'research' I mean I might rootle out a bunch of scientific papers from both sides of the smoking=death argument and weigh things up myself so as to make at least a partially-informed decision.

Anyone particularly anti-smoking or particularly pro-smoking out there can think of a paper I particularly shouldn't miss, please Gaz me the details. I promise not to ignore it.
(I helped save b3ta! Mockingbird Practitioner of SCIENCE, Tue 8 May 2007, 16:43, archived)
# blah blah blah blah smokers rights blah blah blah
;)
(I helped save b3ta! mugatu, Tue 8 May 2007, 16:23, archived)
# 8000 million!!!
we deserve some rights!!
(I helped save b3ta! The King of Hats Cone of shame, Tue 8 May 2007, 16:23, archived)
# SOME
just not many

if a rapist donated millions of pounds to the government, would he be any less of a rapist?

I guess the connection i'm trying to make is, all smokers are rapists.
(I helped save b3ta! mugatu, Tue 8 May 2007, 16:25, archived)
# you make me smile


and rich rapists/peado's get away with it all the time
due to their donations
so what is your point exactly?
:D
(I helped save b3ta! The King of Hats Cone of shame, Tue 8 May 2007, 16:29, archived)
# RAPIST
(I helped save b3ta! mugatu, Tue 8 May 2007, 16:30, archived)
# hmmm...
*donates*
*surprise-sexes*
(I helped save b3ta! Mockingbird Practitioner of SCIENCE, Tue 8 May 2007, 16:33, archived)
# cor! :D
(I helped save b3ta! mugatu, Tue 8 May 2007, 16:34, archived)
# yes but how much of that will you need when you have to have one of your lungs removed due to cancer.

and how much has to be spent clearing up your dog ends and phlegm that you spit out onthe street.
(I helped save b3ta! Thor_sonofodin has done things, terrible things on, Tue 8 May 2007, 16:34, archived)
# £2.50
and a pocket of monster munch.

P.s. Dog ends and phlegm in the street are a problem caused by some people being dirty little scrotes who happen to smoke. I know plenty of smokers (like me) who don't just spit in the street and leave fag ends around the place.
(I helped save b3ta! Mockingbird Practitioner of SCIENCE, Tue 8 May 2007, 16:49, archived)
# i agree the pub was designed as a place to smoke and drink
now the only place you can smoke is at home, with your kids, and their soft absorbent lungs :(
(I helped save b3ta! mictoboy shitting in your cunt since, Tue 8 May 2007, 16:24, archived)
# I agree this is a problem with banning smoking in pubs
(I helped save b3ta! The Coast Of Yemen, Tue 8 May 2007, 16:26, archived)
# blah blah blah passive smoking blah blah blah IT'S A PUB
if you don't want to breathe smoke don't got to a pub

'oh but i work in a pub, and i don't smoke'
GO WORK IN MACDONALDS
(I helped save b3ta! mictoboy shitting in your cunt since, Tue 8 May 2007, 16:29, archived)
#
(I helped save b3ta! mugatu, Tue 8 May 2007, 16:30, archived)
# what?
i don't smoke, i hate the smell of cigarettes


BUT smoking is not a crime
(I helped save b3ta! mictoboy shitting in your cunt since, Tue 8 May 2007, 16:31, archived)
# Phew. For a minute there I thought you were ONE OF THEM.
lolz
(I helped save b3ta! mugatu, Tue 8 May 2007, 16:32, archived)
# If you don't want to go somewhere you can't smoke
don't go to a pub (after 1st July of course).

Seriously, that is the shitest arguament against the ban. Me going into a pub and not smoking doesn't really affect anyone (unless I haven't had a bath for a while) but someone smoking in the same room as me makes me smell and gives me face aids.

Forest talk utter shite.
(Tom Jones's Mojo Hasn't had any since, Tue 8 May 2007, 16:59, archived)
# but then
so do the anti-smoking fanatics.

as far as I can see the agreed facts by actual real life people I've met are:
1) some people like it and want to do it
2) some people think it smells awful and it annoys them.
3) you can't get the smell out of your clothes/eyes/hair easily
4) it's not particularly healthy

so yes, people shouldn't have it inflicted on them needlessly. Nor should people be denied the option to do it, but there's no defence against the perfectly reasonable request to go outside while you do it. Or to a special room or something, with suitable ventilation.
(I helped save b3ta! Mockingbird Practitioner of SCIENCE, Tue 8 May 2007, 17:05, archived)
# I agree
I have no problem if people want to smoke (although I still think that it is obviously not the best thing to do) but the arguament that I shouldn't go to a pub if I don't want breathe it in a smell of it really pisses me off.

Surely the arguament should be the other way around.

Anyway the smokers can moan all they like, they will still be freezing their arses off outside come November.
(Tom Jones's Mojo Hasn't had any since, Tue 8 May 2007, 17:13, archived)
# exactly
when have pubs ever been a refuge of the fit and healthy??

if you don't like a smokey pub
fucking Drink at home
(I helped save b3ta! The King of Hats Cone of shame, Tue 8 May 2007, 16:29, archived)
# If you don't like a non-smokey pub,
fucking drink at home.
(Slurpy The Frog, Tue 8 May 2007, 16:48, archived)
# next they will ban drinking
then dancing and talking
(I helped save b3ta! emvee cruor deo cruoris, Tue 8 May 2007, 16:30, archived)
# ooh
that passive dancing is a right bugger, innit?
(I helped save b3ta! plentyofants more ghee, vicar?, Tue 8 May 2007, 16:33, archived)
# some bastard trod on my foot the other week
*sues*
(I helped save b3ta! emvee cruor deo cruoris, Tue 8 May 2007, 16:34, archived)
# I have said this before
and I will say it again.

Anybody who cares so little about their children that they are willing to smoke in front of them does not need a smoking ban as encouragement.

The smoking ban in Scotland has not stopped anybody from smoking when they go to the pub - they just go outside for 5 minutes whenever they want a cigarette.
(I helped save b3ta! Mystery_Bob, Tue 8 May 2007, 16:33, archived)
# if people smoke in front of their kids
they should be made aware of the consequences
but often lawyers and solicitors kids become lawyers and solicitors, which is a thoroughly shit state of affairs
(I helped save b3ta! mictoboy shitting in your cunt since, Tue 8 May 2007, 16:41, archived)
# I have no idea
what you are banging on about.
(I helped save b3ta! Mystery_Bob, Tue 8 May 2007, 16:44, archived)
# passive
law-careerage.

It's a scourge.
(I helped save b3ta! Mockingbird Practitioner of SCIENCE, Tue 8 May 2007, 16:55, archived)
# 8000 million?
i want evidence!

edit: that works out at about 5.5 million 20 decks a day sold in the uk
(I helped save b3ta! Grundlebiscuit, Tue 8 May 2007, 16:25, archived)
# well you wont find it in the hospitals
i think the government spent it on lunches

at 78% tax,
with 20 ciggs coming in at over £5,
8000 million isn't that much really
(I helped save b3ta! The King of Hats Cone of shame, Tue 8 May 2007, 16:26, archived)
# In 2004, the total tax take from tobacco (smoothed) was £8.1 billion.
from the ASH Media Briefing on the budget and smoking tax 20/03/2006

"The Treasury earned £8,000 million in revenue from tobacco duties for the financial year 2005-2006 (excluding VAT).
"About 80% of the price of a packet of cigarettes consists of taxation."

Smoking costs the National Health Service (NHS) approximately £1.5 billion a year for treating diseases caused by smoking."

from tha ASH tobacco economics fact sheet Feb 2007
(I helped save b3ta! Pasanonic 's been known to cause insanity in laboratory mice, Tue 8 May 2007, 16:29, archived)
# i hate statistics...
70 billion smokes per year with 8.8 billion in tax? how much tax money does that make per cigarette? 0.12 billion? haha...someone please point out my poor maths, this doesn't make sense.

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4709394.stm
(I helped save b3ta! Grundlebiscuit, Tue 8 May 2007, 16:38, archived)
# I'm not interested in the math really as something will be wrong
All I was doing was corroborating that Tax revenue in this country is always around £8Bn a year these days.
I'm not quoting you statisticts I'm quoting you facts that are published by ASH ( the anti smoking people ) who state on their pages that their source for the information is H.M. Treasury.
Sorry if your maths don't add up but it does not alter the facts about tobacco tax revenue.
(I helped save b3ta! Pasanonic 's been known to cause insanity in laboratory mice, Tue 8 May 2007, 16:55, archived)
# ok...
8.8 billion / 70 billion=
8.8/70
=0.125 pounds-of-tax-per-fag

or 12 and a half p.
(I helped save b3ta! Mockingbird Practitioner of SCIENCE, Tue 8 May 2007, 16:57, archived)
# YOUR.
HOUSE.
(Slurpy The Frog, Tue 8 May 2007, 16:25, archived)
# haha this.
(I helped save b3ta! mugatu, Tue 8 May 2007, 16:26, archived)
# well i'd prefer you didn't drive YOUR car
and did you know standing next to a BBQ is very, very bad for your health?
of course you didn't, the scare mongers missed that one
(I helped save b3ta! The King of Hats Cone of shame, Tue 8 May 2007, 16:28, archived)
# but you don't have 20 barbeques a day, do you, you fucknugget?
(I helped save b3ta! mictoboy shitting in your cunt since, Tue 8 May 2007, 16:30, archived)
# he does!
(I helped save b3ta! mugatu, Tue 8 May 2007, 16:31, archived)
# but if you took your BBQ along to a public place and lit it up next to a stranger, it wouldn't be very nice would it?
unless there was bbq chicken.
(I helped save b3ta! mugatu, Tue 8 May 2007, 16:31, archived)
# Well,
I certainly don't sit at bus stops, driving my car next to everyone.
(Slurpy The Frog, Tue 8 May 2007, 16:42, archived)
# Why can't pubs decide whether they want to be smoking or non-smoking?
Then people could choose whether they wanted to go to a smoking pub or not, and everyone would be happy, except for the anti-smoking Nazis
(I helped save b3ta! emvee cruor deo cruoris, Tue 8 May 2007, 16:32, archived)
# to be honest, I agree completely.
Or at least have effective smoking areas within pubs (with decent air extraction etc) instead of the only thing separating the smoking and non smoking sections being a small sign.
(I helped save b3ta! mugatu, Tue 8 May 2007, 16:33, archived)
# I went to a lovely coffeeshop in Leiden
where the air conditioning/extractor fan system was so efficient, that mere seconds after I put out my fatty there wasn't even the merest hint of smoke in the air. If all smoking pubs were made to install that kind of equipment, there would be no problem.
(I helped save b3ta! emvee cruor deo cruoris, Tue 8 May 2007, 16:37, archived)
# this is what i've been saying all along.
Despite my joking comments on here to wind ironman, I am not one of these agressive anti-smoking types. I do believe there is a time and place for everything, and I wish it wasn't so 'all or nothing'.
(I helped save b3ta! mugatu, Tue 8 May 2007, 16:39, archived)
# No.
You'd have to designate special rooms, or make better ventilation or soemthing, which could cost the money of people who don't smell.

Smokers should wear special helmets to keep their smoke away from everyone else.
(Slurpy The Frog, Tue 8 May 2007, 16:44, archived)