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# ..
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/7114439.stm
(I helped save b3ta! The Great Architect is still waiting for his account to be deleted on, Tue 27 Nov 2007, 10:57, archived)
# Thanks ;)
and good morning

/edit: I feel it's safe to say the world hasn't gone less mad during my absence
(I helped save b3ta! mediocre ha ha ha, you're reading this, Tue 27 Nov 2007, 11:00, archived)
# you left the world?


(I helped save b3ta! Sir Aunty Grampa Dave the Hat - enjoying a post-meridian muncheon - Ta! Cannaoogim!?, Tue 27 Nov 2007, 11:27, archived)
# pretty much, yes
;)
(I helped save b3ta! mediocre ha ha ha, you're reading this, Tue 27 Nov 2007, 11:32, archived)
# let's be honest here
it may be against what we consider acceptable behaviour to jail her for something that we consider inoffensive. but she is an idiot for calling a teddy bear muhammed. what did she think was going to happen? i have no sympathy.
(I helped save b3ta! new_matt, Tue 27 Nov 2007, 11:01, archived)
# the kids wanted to call it mohammed
and she said "No you, can't do that because I will go to jail, get 40 lashes and quite possibly my tits cut off"

and the kids said "Let us call it Mohammed or we'll tell the press you let us call it Mohammed"*

* may contain elements of madeupness
(I helped save b3ta! Mighty Nibus who dares gins | @nibus, Tue 27 Nov 2007, 11:04, archived)
# lets be accurate here, the kids voted to call it muhammed after the kids suggested a few names to vote on,
perhaps if the parents had instilled into their darling little ones that it was against their culture to take that name in vain in such a way, they wouldn't had suggested it in the first place.
Granted, she perhaps should have been given more guidance directly on what was/wasn't acceptable in that system, but she isn't of that culture, and doesn't have first hand experience of it. The children decided on the name, and voted for it, the teacher was teaching them about voting systems and benefits of it, what sort of example would it have set if a majority voted on the name and she said 'no, you can't call it that because of X, Y and Z'
As a teacher, her first concern is the education of the children, not of religious overtones.
(I helped save b3ta! The Great Architect is still waiting for his account to be deleted on, Tue 27 Nov 2007, 11:05, archived)
# asbo-fucking-lutely

(I helped save b3ta! somegreybloke, Tue 27 Nov 2007, 11:09, archived)
# What they learned...
... is that the exercise of democracy will result in prison.

Pretty much a win for the authorities there then :)
(faragher dub, Tue 27 Nov 2007, 11:14, archived)
# I reckon they knew the consequences, knew that 'Miss' was gullible,
so all voted on it, knowing that they'd shut the school until January - canny young buggers!
(I helped save b3ta! The Great Architect is still waiting for his account to be deleted on, Tue 27 Nov 2007, 11:16, archived)
# as a teacher she should know full well that calling a teddy bear muhammed was going to insult someone
just like you can't go calling your dog nigger like they did in the Dambusters. now, if you're going to offend anybody, common sense should tell you that some people are going to get upset and the muslim country that were paying her wages were going to take it badly. she lives in their country, she has to know this stuff. she is still an idiot.
(I helped save b3ta! new_matt, Tue 27 Nov 2007, 11:17, archived)
#
"Sooo...you refuse to call the bear Mohammed - what is wrong with the name Mohammed? You will die!"

"Sooo...you have called the bear Mohammed. You will die!"

this is why I never became a teacher, you can't win
(I helped save b3ta! Mighty Nibus who dares gins | @nibus, Tue 27 Nov 2007, 11:19, archived)
# i don't think that the former would happen
"so, you refuse to call a bear mohammed. Why?"
"well, to do so would cause great offence to the country in which i live and the people who so kindly welcomed me to the land"
(I helped save b3ta! new_matt, Tue 27 Nov 2007, 11:22, archived)
# aye
mohammed's a shit name for a bear anyway

they should have called it Brian
(I helped save b3ta! Mighty Nibus who dares gins | @nibus, Tue 27 Nov 2007, 11:26, archived)
# It has NOTHING to do with being a teacher at all, it's a religious matter
it has nothing to do with, or be any part of, teaching kids, who named the bear themselves.

other muslim teachers - some born and bred in that culture - knew what she was doing with the class, and had NO objections, and did not see it a viable matter to warn her against it.

If her muslim colleagues don't think it a matter viable enough to warn her against it, and they also teach muslim children, then why should this woman, regardless of culture, be made a scapegoat?
(I helped save b3ta! The Great Architect is still waiting for his account to be deleted on, Tue 27 Nov 2007, 11:22, archived)
# it has something to do with being a teacher
as she is in charge of the children and should be able to at least tell them that it's a bad idea as it is insulting to their religion.

there are more than enough christians in this country, for instance, that would be pissed off if a teacher called the school's pet Jesus, we just wouldn't sentence her to corporal punsihment.

i think it's extreme, don't get me wrong, but with the best will in the world anyone who is savvy enough to be a teacher must know that this is a bad idea?

i'm not the sharpest, but i know full well that certain muslim countries are a little bit testy about that sort of thing and have more strict punishments than we do.
(I helped save b3ta! new_matt, Tue 27 Nov 2007, 11:27, archived)
# religion has NOTHING to do with teaching, unless you're teaching R.E. or equivalent, and I daresay it wasn't part of the lessons she was teaching.
It is not her job to explain their religion to them, it is her job to teach them skills they need at such a young age to progress. I daresay the school would have a muslim to teach them about religion, as it would seem odd to put a british woman in to teach 6-7 year olds about their own religion, I feel that the parents would have been more upset at that.
If other muslim colleagues knew what was going on, and felt it ok, what was she to do? She was being guided and agreed with in her teaching methods by muslim colleagues.

Who's to say that there wasn't a popular kid in class called Muhammed who the kids thought the bear reminded them of?
(I helped save b3ta! The Great Architect is still waiting for his account to be deleted on, Tue 27 Nov 2007, 11:32, archived)
# like it or not
you have to have an understanding of religion, even if it's just so you can decide not to belive in any particular god. there is nothing wrong with being sensitive to a person's beliefs or culture when you are in their country or home.
(I helped save b3ta! new_matt, Tue 27 Nov 2007, 11:46, archived)
# aye, be sensitive yes, but she was being guided, and agreed with - by people of the faith she has now 'upset' over these actions
she's in a lose-lose scenario with the kids and the muslim faith over it. Have an appreciation, yes, but it's not her call to dictate it in class
(I helped save b3ta! The Great Architect is still waiting for his account to be deleted on, Tue 27 Nov 2007, 11:50, archived)
# I strongly suspect
that she's being made a scapegoat in order to be used as a pawn in the Muslim Sudanese government's continuing campaign against Christianity in the South of the country (as in Darfur, etc.).

Bit of a Reichstag situation, really: "We want to get the Jews!" "But they've done nothing wrong." "Oh, bollocks... er... oi, Moishe, can you just hold this box of matches for me?"
(I helped save b3ta! Sonic the Hedgetrimmer doesn't care what you think, Tue 27 Nov 2007, 20:57, archived)
# I suspect
that Mrs Gibbons assumed that the (mainly Muslim?) kids were more aware of what was acceptable in their own culture than she was (as an outsider). That might make her naive, but not an idiot.

And since at the time no objections were raised, it does look as though someone has stirred things up for some reason.



(I helped save b3ta! somegreybloke, Tue 27 Nov 2007, 11:33, archived)
# it was Hitler
(I helped save b3ta! Mighty Nibus who dares gins | @nibus, Tue 27 Nov 2007, 11:38, archived)
# that pesky Hitler
Always up to naughty tricks
(I helped save b3ta! somegreybloke, Tue 27 Nov 2007, 14:12, archived)
# If she IS teaching in an islam country
I hope none of the girls got to vote either.

okay maybe less true in the last couple of years
(I helped save b3ta! fross Read your email on, Tue 27 Nov 2007, 11:43, archived)
# It wasn't her.
It was the kids in her class - 23 out of 25 of them or something like that. The other teachers, some of whom are muslim, didn't have a problem with the name and were impressed that she had managed to get the children to vote.

Plus the name had been in place for a while before anyone complained. Pretty much all of the parents knew and thought it was fine as well.

Then there is the whole business of people calling their kids Muhammed. Why is that not as insulting?
(Mr._Pickles, Tue 27 Nov 2007, 11:06, archived)