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This is a normal post 10 years maximum for inciting actual violence I just read
so yes, very harsh for a non event.
 (I helped save b3ta! HappyToast Groat froth, Wed 17 Aug 2011, 10:10, Reply)
This is a normal post I know, one guy's been charged with murder
and all he did was kill a guy, www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-14541954 honestly, complete over reaction or WHAT!?

;)
 (I helped save b3ta! ..wil, Wed 17 Aug 2011, 10:22, Reply)
This is a normal post I think there is some confusion going on again
Going back to the 4 years Legless, it just struck me that this is actually quite a strong message to all the people who did organise the riots, who will no doubt see this story and may think twice.

still not fair on the kids who set up a non event facebook page
 (I helped save b3ta! HappyToast Groat froth, Wed 17 Aug 2011, 10:28, Reply)
This is a normal post Agreed, this is surely a hard punishment that will send out a message to da yoof in da ghetto.
Two young kids will get fucked up and may well go on to commit real crimes, but who really gives a shit about them.
 (pissflaps. FSPW, Wed 17 Aug 2011, 10:34, Reply)
This is a normal post Just pullin ya chain again Toasty
yeh I think they're just tryin to show a strong tough reaction, esp after all the kids interviewed and all the facebook quotes about 'What they gonna do, they can't touch us, even if they send us down the prisons are full or like hotels n stuff n shit' etc showing they feel the law, prisons and police are all soft as shit on youth here and don't feel they have anything to fear.
 (I helped save b3ta! ..wil, Wed 17 Aug 2011, 10:37, Reply)
This is a normal post ah, that's the confusion
we were talking about the 2 kids who hadn't been in the riots or committed previous offences, but were just guilty of setting up a facebook page. There's no certainty that the even would have happened, but they are still doing 4 years, which is a lot less than most rapists.
 (I helped save b3ta! HappyToast Groat froth, Wed 17 Aug 2011, 10:41, Reply)
This is a normal post It's an interesting change in events
up till recently anything said online was always seen as 'not counting', but it's pretty obvious now that regardless of the media used the point is it's affecting people and things in real life, I think the law is waking up to the fact it's gonna hafta start treating stuff done and said online just as seriously as a group sitting in a room organising crime in the streets, esp if that's exactly what they're attempting to organise.

We may all have to start thinking about what we write and do online as seriously as we would what we would say and do in public.
 (I helped save b3ta! ..wil, Wed 17 Aug 2011, 10:48, Reply)
This is a normal post scary business

(I helped save b3ta! HappyToast Groat froth, Wed 17 Aug 2011, 10:56, Reply)
This is a normal post Hangonaminutehere!
Kids? They're 21 and 22 years old.
Thats way past the growing hair in funny places squeaking voice stage.
 (I helped save b3ta! Cerebus Sticky! Sticky! Stick! Stick!, Wed 17 Aug 2011, 10:59, Reply)
This is a normal post Well anything below 25 is jailbait to me!
;)
 (I helped save b3ta! ..wil, Wed 17 Aug 2011, 11:05, Reply)
This is a normal post 'just guilty of setting up a facebook page'? that's not what they were found guilty of is it?
at least, luckily, no-one was stupid enough to act on it, it appears, but it makes no odds, they attempted to start a riot.

would it have been any different if they'd been giving out leaflets?
 (I helped save b3ta! spesh., Wed 17 Aug 2011, 11:03, Reply)
This is a normal post This is purely conjecture and opinion
but I think it may actually be different if they were handing out leaflets, yes. And I'd probably be more comfortable with the sentence too.

Handing out leaflets takes effort, planning and money. The mere fact of doing it is much more of a statement of intent than any half arsed idiot being able to set up a FB page in 30 seconds flat. I'd be a lot more inclined to take these idiots seriously if they were standing on the streets pushing pieces of paper with times and dates and messages on into people's hands.

As it is, and I don't know their motives of course, two people who were already likely to struggle to achieve anything in life have now been turned over to the hands of a failing prison system that is going to fuck them over good and proper for what could well be no more than a fleeting moment of stupidity.

Edit: Sorry, I've just realised it looks like I am following you around responding only to your points, that wasn't intentional, it just happens that your posts have been the ones that have inspired my thoughts.
 (I helped save b3ta! scarpe We Stole Bikes, Wed 17 Aug 2011, 11:13, Reply)
This is a normal post well that's alright then, we'll tell the EDL to stick to facebook and they'll be ok
edit: reply away, there would no point either of us posting if you didn't would there? :)
 (I helped save b3ta! spesh., Wed 17 Aug 2011, 11:19, Reply)
This is a normal post Well I think that over simplifes my point somewhat
It comes back to taking each case on it's merits. If there was a coordinated, organised effort by the EDL to incite violence using FB that's still different to giving a computer to two moron's and ending up with a shitty but ultimately ineffective one off FB group.

I should say again, I'm not arguing that legal action should not have been taken, I just feel quite strongly that locking two people up for four years for stupidity isn't right, sets a dangerous precedent and is abusing the law to set an example.
 (I helped save b3ta! scarpe We Stole Bikes, Wed 17 Aug 2011, 11:26, Reply)
This is a normal post I would reply to this but I will end up never leaving the house today if this goes on which is a waste of a day off.
and anyway we both have our opinions on this - whether the sentence is too harsh is probably quite subjective anyway.

but thank you for the discussion :)
 (I helped save b3ta! spesh., Wed 17 Aug 2011, 11:38, Reply)
This is a normal post Funny, I was going to say the same to you.
We were never going to agree, but it was nice to be able to discuss it without anger or abuse following.
 (I helped save b3ta! scarpe We Stole Bikes, Wed 17 Aug 2011, 12:29, Reply)
This is a normal post You're Right

Sometimes, an example has to be made to deter others who were thinking of doing the same thing.

It just sucks when you're the example.

Two kids lives are probably ruined but, next time round, people are going to think twice about doing this on the Internet.

Another way of thinking about this is they only got 6 months for inciting a riot but got an extra three and half years for being dumb enough to post this on their traceable facebook page.

Cheers
 (I helped save b3ta! Legless Mister Stabby - shanks for the memory, Wed 17 Aug 2011, 10:45, Reply)
This is a normal post That's dangeous too though
the law isn't there to set examples, it should treat every case on it's own merits, not external factors.

If the law itself is too leniant/harsh that's a different issue.
 (I helped save b3ta! scarpe We Stole Bikes, Wed 17 Aug 2011, 10:51, Reply)
This is a normal post ^This^
When Eric Cantona was initially jailed for attacking that Palace fan the judge stated that he was making an example of him because of who he was. The sentence didn't survive the appeal as the law is supposed to treat each case on the merits of the crime committed.
 (I helped save b3ta! TownsendsPublisher is all gravy baby, Wed 17 Aug 2011, 10:56, Reply)
This is a normal post I say why not make them prove their way out.
4 years or 10 GCSE B or higher and a vocational qualification, whichever comes first.
 (I helped save b3ta! zacherynuk @echo off, Wed 17 Aug 2011, 11:26, Reply)
This is a normal post That's

The best idea I've heard in ages!
 (I helped save b3ta! Legless Mister Stabby - shanks for the memory, Wed 17 Aug 2011, 11:36, Reply)
This is a normal post it doesn't matter that it was a 'non-event', they're still guilty of the offence as charged.
if you don't want legislation for incitement then you have to accept that some EDL prick will be legally entitled to start a facebook group calling on people to 'burn out the pakis' or something.

(If these two lads were EDL members and their facebook page was racially motivated, I wonder what the response would be from some of those complaining about the sentences?)?
 (I helped save b3ta! spesh., Wed 17 Aug 2011, 10:31, Reply)
This is a normal post true

(I helped save b3ta! HappyToast Groat froth, Wed 17 Aug 2011, 10:38, Reply)
This is a normal post I'm not convinced that anyone has argued that they are not guilty of the offence
just that the sentence is harsh in relation to the severity of the crime.

We are in a situation where justice is being replaced by punishment and that's a dangerous road to be on.

But what do I know, I'm a mong cunt.
 (I helped save b3ta! scarpe We Stole Bikes, Wed 17 Aug 2011, 10:41, Reply)
This is a normal post they could have got 10 years
(assuming the crime they were guilty of inciting is Riot)
 (I helped save b3ta! spesh., Wed 17 Aug 2011, 10:44, Reply)
This is a normal post I know what they could have got
but that doesn't bear any relation to whether 4 years is harsh or not.

Edit: Just seen your second point about what the reaction would be if it was EDL. I confess that I would probably find it harder to get as annoyed about, but that wouldn't neccessarily make the sentencing any less wrong, it would just need to find different voices than to mine to argue the case. And yes, that's my hypocrisy and one that I can live with.

Although the racial aspect is actually allowed for in law, so by definition the harsher sentence could be argued to be more valid anyway. So it would depend if they were explicitly inciting racial violence or not.
 (I helped save b3ta! scarpe We Stole Bikes, Wed 17 Aug 2011, 10:45, Reply)