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This is a normal post I got 10 minutes in before getting a bit bored, is there an abridged version?
I appreciate he's done his research and is passionate about it, but I've not got the time and he needs to cut to the chase a bit more.
 (I helped save b3ta! HappyToast Groat froth, Sun 26 Aug 2012, 12:20, , Reply)
This is a normal post summary so far
(will edit as it goes on)

1. Sodom & Gomorrah nothing to do with it
2. supersessionism
 (I helped save b3ta! Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Sun 26 Aug 2012, 13:14, , Reply)
This is a normal post Perhaps a bit too abridged
I was more after, is he just justifying his choice of religion with his sexuality, and if so, does he and why?
I just can't get my head around people wanting to be a part of a religion that is so full of people telling them they are wrong.
It's like Stockholm Syndrome or something
 (I helped save b3ta! HappyToast Groat froth, Sun 26 Aug 2012, 13:17, , Reply)
This is a normal post Well because they believe in the message of Jesus I guess,
and love God as the creator of the Universe.

There are congregations that are not homophobic, it's ignorant individual Christians that are the problem, not Christianity itself.
 (I helped save b3ta! Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Sun 26 Aug 2012, 13:22, , Reply)
This is a normal post I can honestly say, I've never met a Christian that wasn't homophobic
they've always just said it's wrong, it's what they've been taught and believe.
But I won't judge them all on these cases.
 (I helped save b3ta! HappyToast Groat froth, Sun 26 Aug 2012, 13:25, , Reply)
This is a normal post We need people to tell them that their beliefs are based on dodgy biblical interpretation,
bad scholarship, and ideas that are a lot more modern and a lot less traditional than they realise.
 (I helped save b3ta! Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Sun 26 Aug 2012, 13:28, , Reply)
This is a normal post Yes, and there's nothing devoutly religious people are better known for
than listening to people tell them what they believe is wrong and taking what they say on board.
 (I helped save b3ta! HappyToast Groat froth, Sun 26 Aug 2012, 13:33, , Reply)
This is a normal post You have to start at the fringes and work your way inwards.

(I helped save b3ta! Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Sun 26 Aug 2012, 13:35, , Reply)
This is a normal post Good luck with that, let us know how you get on.

(I helped save b3ta! Dawn Of The Bread $$$$ E-THUG 4 LIFE - THAT'S HOW I SCROLL $$$$, Sun 26 Aug 2012, 13:56, , Reply)
This is a normal post yeah it's difficult,
they typically accuse me of talking a load of bollocks and quoting ridiculous facts.
 (I helped save b3ta! Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Sun 26 Aug 2012, 14:04, , Reply)
This is a normal post It's like they know you.

(I helped save b3ta! Dawn Of The Bread $$$$ E-THUG 4 LIFE - THAT'S HOW I SCROLL $$$$, Sun 26 Aug 2012, 14:05, , Reply)
This is a normal post Actually I don't have any religious friends who aren't already tolerant,
except the Jehovah's Witnesses that come round, if they count, and I can scarcely make a dent on them.
 (I helped save b3ta! Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Sun 26 Aug 2012, 14:14, , Reply)
This is a normal post You need a gun.

(I helped save b3ta! Dawn Of The Bread $$$$ E-THUG 4 LIFE - THAT'S HOW I SCROLL $$$$, Sun 26 Aug 2012, 14:30, , Reply)
This is a normal post If everybody had a gun there'd be no Jehovah's Witnesses

(I helped save b3ta! Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Sun 26 Aug 2012, 14:37, , Reply)
This is a normal post If you had a gun there'd be no one full stop.

(I helped save b3ta! Dawn Of The Bread $$$$ E-THUG 4 LIFE - THAT'S HOW I SCROLL $$$$, Sun 26 Aug 2012, 14:40, , Reply)
This is a normal post hahahaha! actual lol.

(I helped save b3ta! tickle I was away, Mon 27 Aug 2012, 0:46, , Reply)
This is a normal post you can't have met very many then
Just off the top of my head I can count over 20 christians I know personally (either through work, hobbies or family connections) who are absolutely fine with it - and one who isn't

4 of those have invited myself and my boyfriend to their weddings and we had a *fabulous* time chatting to the grandparents!

I know 4 openly gay christians, one of whom trained as a priest. None of those have a problem with their church (so I guess you can add at least 3 congregations to the numbers)

I'm not a christian (I tend to describe myself as ignostic) but I really don't get this whole "OMG! The church is so evil and homophobic" because it just doesn't match up with my experiences.

Sure some churches are twats, but an awful lot of them aren't.

Edit: Anecdote not data, your mileage may vary etc etc etc
 (I helped save b3ta! LP, Sun 26 Aug 2012, 15:18, , Reply)
This is a normal post Much like my arguments to friends from church that make generalisations about groups they see as "anti-Christian"
(I'm so glad to see your comment, because b3ta can get me down sometimes with the hate that some people post)

I'm sure there is a huge silent majority of atheists and agnostics who feel as deeply embarrassed to be categorised with twat-atheists as I am to be categorised with twat-christians (my beloved brothers and sisters, but boy do they vex me sorely sometimes). Just as there are likely muslims who get frustrated that the outsiders' perception of them as a group is so coloured by the actions of the jihadists. I couldn't say authoritatively on this though: I've not met many muslims as I live in a very anglo-saxon part of the UK.
 (Stonkwood Pipes made me do it, Mon 27 Aug 2012, 10:04, , Reply)
This is a normal post Agree entirely
A church full of decent people will treat people decently. A church full of ignorant people will treat people ignorantly.

And as you know, I'm in the 19/20.
 (Smiley_Neil filling the interweb with crap, Mon 27 Aug 2012, 17:16, , Reply)
This is a normal post
3. verse in Romans 1 is about an excess of lust not the type of lust
4. dodgy translation from the Greek
 (I helped save b3ta! Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Sun 26 Aug 2012, 13:37, , Reply)
This is a normal post from :59 onwards
his conclusion is very well put.
 (I helped save b3ta! miss fortunate last posted ages ago, Sun 26 Aug 2012, 13:39, , Reply)
This is a normal post Attempt at shortening it a bit
There are 6 passages in the bible which are usually used as anti-gay arguments: (Genesis 19, Leviticus 18, Leviticus 20, Romans 1, 1 Corinthians and 1 Timothy)
Aditionally, often people argue that God's natural design' is man and woman, using the creation of Adam and Eve as evidence.
If this interpretation is correct, then any gay person who wishes to be a good Christian must always reject love. Not just sex, but romantic love, family, having a spouse, children etc. They must live a life of loneliness.

Going back to Genesis, God made the heavens and earth, plants, animals, man and everything else. All of these he said were 'good' or 'very good'. The FIRST thing ever said to be not good in the Bible is "for man to be alone" (Gen 2:18), thus God made Eve as a companion for him. What we get from this is that all men need a companion. The fact that Adam's comanion was Eve doesn't necessarily translate that ALL men need a woman as a companion. The only thing the Bible says is that a companion is needed.

Genesis 19: Destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah. Two angels in the form of men seek hospitality in Sodom with Lot and his family. Men of Sodom gather outside Lot's house and demand he hands over the men so they can have sex with them. Instead, he hands over his virgin daughters. God destroys Sodom with fire and brimstone.
Set in historical context, gang rape of men by men was used by societies of this place and era as a tool of agression and humiliation in warfare. Every other mention of Sodom in the Bible refers only to the arrogance and selfishness of its people, not homosexulaity. The story is illustrating that Sodom is violently agressive to strangers, and that this act is against God's wishes. The male/male rape is used to show this, but this isn't what God was angry about, it was the xenophobia.


Leviticus: this is a huge book of Laws for Jews; 613 of them in total. Leviticus 18:22 says "you shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination" and Leviticus 20:13 says that the penalty for this is death.
The thing is, none of these rules apply to Christians. Sure, some of the more common-sense ones are still followed, but Christians happily eat pork and shellfish, wear mixed-fibre clothing and cut their hair. So Leviticus 18:22 is no more relevent.
Also, the term 'abomination', put in correct cultural context, simply means "not Jewish". it doesn't make it a sin, it's just not the Jewish way. In addition, while the death penalty may make it seem that this is a particularly strong rule, loads of rules in Leviticus have astonishingly harsh punishments, simply being put to death is actually not as bad as many of them. So we need pay no attention to Leviticus.

Romans 1:26-27: This speaks of God's rejection of people who turned away from Him and abandoned their 'nature' for 'unnratural relations'. However, if the verses are placed in context it is shown that God rejects these people because they CHANGE their nature. They used to be heterosexual, and they hav decided to be homosexual. They have turned away from how they naturally feel. This is bad, God rejects them. The correct ting to do is to follow your nature, stay true to it, and God will support you.
In addition, the word 'natural' in this passage is used elsewhere but translated as meaning a cultural norm. So Romans 1:26/27 is not saying that homosexuality is 'unnatural', only that it is not the cultural norm.
Consider too, that in this place and era, sexuality didn't exist as a the concept we see it today. Instead, men were expected to take an 'active' sexual role, and women the 'passive' role. This was the cultural norm, so an active female or a passive male would be culturally 'unnatural'. This has been translated by later scribes as 'shameful', but this weight to the word is not there in the original text.
 (I helped save b3ta! Seventh is somewhat subdued, Sun 26 Aug 2012, 15:28, , Reply)
This is a normal post cheers for the abridged version
but why does he want to be defined as a Christian/follower of the bible?
 (I helped save b3ta! HappyToast Groat froth, Sun 26 Aug 2012, 16:19, , Reply)
This is a normal post in his own words,
because he loves Jesus and God.
 (I helped save b3ta! Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Sun 26 Aug 2012, 16:35, , Reply)
This is a normal post has he met them?
or just what someone tells him they are?
 (I helped save b3ta! HappyToast Groat froth, Sun 26 Aug 2012, 17:05, , Reply)
This is a normal post He can read the Bible for himself, I guess,
and he seems to have done his research.
 (I helped save b3ta! Moon Girl Technologies horrendous beanbag, Sun 26 Aug 2012, 17:11, , Reply)