hmmm
Its a little worrying at how many people say they hate children on here, yet used to be one.

Being a parent it takes you back to your roots. Christmas becomes interesting again, you take interests in things you only did when you were a child yourself.

As a guy you get to play with all the toys you want - first - to make sure they work.

and most of all, even though 90% of the time they act like ignorant, deaf, wind up merchants. And yes you have to clear up poo, sick, and other bodily fluids. you only need one thing to make you forget all that. Believe me, when that child walks for the first time, speaks for the first time, reads fo the first time... Does anything for the first time.... all those problems melt away..

May i recomend Bill Murrays speech in Lost in Translation when hes on the bed with the girl..

He seems to hit the nail on the head.

It seems to me that all people who hate kids are the ones who havent been parents yet. Like saying you hate a food type when youve never tried it... in other words your scared.

I have a 4 yr old boy... Hes my best friend.
(Dan dan dan They tik urh jerbs!!!, Thu 24 Apr 2008, 12:38, 47 replies)

...
Did you actually read any of the considered responses in this week's QOTW?
( crackhouseceilidhband Fuck off back to Mumsnet, Thu 24 Apr 2008, 12:40, closed)

This^^^^
*clicks*

Anyone who doesn't like kids, good for you, but I think they're mostly pretty darn great.

EDIT @CHCB While I agree that all of the responses were well considered, I don't think that anybody truely understands what being a parent is all about until they are one, and I'm not saying that to be patronising, it changes your whole life, for the better in my opinion.
I get the feeling that alot of people on here have been put off the idea of having kids by a few bad experiences, or pushy parents.
( Bert Monkeysex is waiting for the mods to delete him, Thu 24 Apr 2008, 12:41, closed)

yes,
I have read quite a few, I apologise to those who cant have kids, or not in a position to do so.

but those people who say they hate kids - thats who im aiming this at.

Yes they are annoying, but can be the best - the BEST thing in the world.

e.g. my Boy made a birthday card for me last week, all on his own, drew pictures and everything. Im a man, and am not afriad to say my heart literally melted and a lump arose in my throat. we are only here for one thing,

I think i found it....
(Dan dan dan They tik urh jerbs!!!, Thu 24 Apr 2008, 12:44, closed)

Hating kids without having them
Yes, but imagine how horrible it would be if we had kids and still decided we hated them....

(actually I don't hate them, particularly, I'm just not good with them)

As for being one - yes I was and I wasn't a fan then - a lot of them were noisy and mardy or bullies, most of them picked on me, I didn't like them much at all :)
(Beklet is inexplicably angry, Thu 24 Apr 2008, 12:45, closed)

mmmm... no
Christmas is interesting, I get to see all my familly and a couple of days off work.

I buy myself toys and don't have to share.

I don't hate kids, I just don't want any of my own. I'll quite happily look after my mate's kids when they need me to, but it's good to be able to give them back when they start to smell funny.

The problem with saying "It seems to me that all people who hate kids are the ones who havent been parents yet. Like saying you hate a food type when youve never tried it... in other words your scared." is that I can spit out food I don't like once I've tried it, I can't put a kid back if I don't like it.

My best friend is Keith. He gets me tickets for Liverpool games for free...
(ScousersPet, Thu 24 Apr 2008, 12:46, closed)

As I've said
I don't *hate* kids, I just have no desire to have my own. Always maintained that if it happened (hey, contraception can and does fail on occasion) I wouldn't be devastated, but consciously making the decision? Nah!

What I do *hate* though is parents telling me that kids are great just because they think their own kids are the best thing since sliced goats. I've met some kids that are, at heart, deeply unpleasant, nauseating little bastards. I've also met some truly angelic little buggers as well.

But I still wouldn't want one of my own.
( Davros' Granddad a voice of calm reason in a world of spastics., Thu 24 Apr 2008, 12:46, closed)

@Dan Dan Dan: ok
but your argument doesn't really stand up. It's a common argument by people who have children, but to me it seems flawed, like:
"Purple is my favourite colour so purple is the BEST and you're wrong because you don't like purple and I do".
( crackhouseceilidhband Fuck off back to Mumsnet, Thu 24 Apr 2008, 12:47, closed)

@Beklet
Nobody on here has ever said, 'if you don't like kids, you should try having some'.
I'm just trying to point out that kids aren't all that bad, and that just because some people don't understand another person's desire to have kids, doesn't mean that they are wrong, and that seeing a child behaving badly in a restaurant or supermarket shouldn't be enough to put anyone off.

EDIT CHCB Nobody is forcing you to 'like purple' we're just expressing our opinion, and that is that kids are a good thing. It worries me that so many people on here feel so strongly against the idea of having kids.
( Bert Monkeysex is waiting for the mods to delete him, Thu 24 Apr 2008, 12:49, closed)

There are plenty of reasons to hate kids without fear being involved
Nappy buckets being a pretty good example, two o'clock feeds another. Being 'on call' for the rest of my life in case they fuck up in anyway whatsoever and I have to bail them out and/or let them move back in after I'd spent the last 20 years trying to get rid of them.
( Brandy_Bumwinkle, Thu 24 Apr 2008, 12:50, closed)

Hmmm...
I still don't want kids.
I don't like being around them, they're noisy, messy, they smell and they touch things.
Kids that don't do any of those things are creepy.

"the BEST thing in the world" to me, is me.

/remains un-moved.
( Cawl, Thu 24 Apr 2008, 12:50, closed)

....
your own child will always be the best thing. True.

I watched the DVD of his nativity and noticed other kids too. my son was Joseph. watching the play as a whole - i was blown away at just how well the class perfromed together. a few little girls sang solo parts amazingly. they are only 4.
(Dan dan dan They tik urh jerbs!!!, Thu 24 Apr 2008, 12:51, closed)

^^ This is
Exactly the kind of thing that we've been saying.

I mean no offence to you, or your child, but even if he was shite, you'd not think that.
( Cawl, Thu 24 Apr 2008, 12:53, closed)

@Bert
I like purple.

But I still don't want kids. Unless they could be purple too. Then I might consider it. Imagine - a world full of different coloured children....


Oh, hang on...
( Davros' Granddad a voice of calm reason in a world of spastics., Thu 24 Apr 2008, 12:54, closed)

^^*seconds Kaol*
so you're in a subjective situation and so are we and compromise is bollix, so agree to disagree.

Hey, that rhymed.
( crackhouseceilidhband Fuck off back to Mumsnet, Thu 24 Apr 2008, 12:55, closed)

@Bert Monkeysex
Cheers...

I feel i may have opened a can of worms here.

Im not trying to get everyone to go out and put a bun in the oven, no. But understand that its a very worth while life option, and very rewarding. And not as bad as this board has portrayed at times.
(Dan dan dan They tik urh jerbs!!!, Thu 24 Apr 2008, 12:55, closed)

you haven't opened a can of worms
you're just stirring one. And I think both sides of the divide have been pretty well represented this week.
( crackhouseceilidhband Fuck off back to Mumsnet, Thu 24 Apr 2008, 12:56, closed)

@D's G
Purple is my favourite colour, i love my old skeletor action figure because he ad a purple cloak.

@Dan My point exactly, but better put.
( Bert Monkeysex is waiting for the mods to delete him, Thu 24 Apr 2008, 12:57, closed)

@DG
Bruises can be purple...

Instead of kids, I want some of these:

www.maikelnai.es/wp-content/uploads/2007/06/axolotl.jpg
( Cawl, Thu 24 Apr 2008, 12:57, closed)

I like CHCB
She said "Bollix".

I don't have kids, but I get on well with the g/f's and I like my neices. However I don't turn glassy eyed when one of them warbles "Silent Night" at me.

Anyone who attempts to morally bludgeon me into accepting that I need my own children in order to be complete does so at their absolute peril.

And yes, it's happened to me so my feelings run strongly on this subject.
(Bicycle Repairman "you're also a bit of a wanker", Thu 24 Apr 2008, 12:58, closed)

crackhouseceilidhband
i hear you,

but theres no harm in arguing for the side im on. In a nice way of course.
(Dan dan dan They tik urh jerbs!!!, Thu 24 Apr 2008, 12:58, closed)

I've really enjoyed this QOTW
And will be sorry to see it go. But it happens eventually - you nurture a question for a whole week, then it finally flies the nest and eventually hardly comes round to visit anymore... the next thing, you're looking back at your achievements and thinking "was that it?"

Remind you of anything..?



I am kidding, by the way.
( Davros' Granddad a voice of calm reason in a world of spastics., Thu 24 Apr 2008, 12:59, closed)

^
my sex life?
( crackhouseceilidhband Fuck off back to Mumsnet, Thu 24 Apr 2008, 13:00, closed)

PJM
no on is telling you to.

When / If you have one of your own you will understand what i mean.

to everyone else, no harm is meant by this post.
(Dan dan dan They tik urh jerbs!!!, Thu 24 Apr 2008, 13:00, closed)

er
You do realise that using the line:

"When / If you have one of your own you will understand what i mean."

means you will be roundly slapped by the childless?

Having children does not bestow you with special perceptive powers.
( crackhouseceilidhband Fuck off back to Mumsnet, Thu 24 Apr 2008, 13:02, closed)

No offense taken Dan
I realise you weren't saying anything inflammatory, but it's my standard response to less understanding folk who have tried to pressure me into turning pro-reproduction.

Each to their own. If you love your kids and are a good parent then who could ask for more?
(Bicycle Repairman "you're also a bit of a wanker", Thu 24 Apr 2008, 13:02, closed)

^ I disagree
I've met a few people that have deeply regretted having kids and freely admit they were the biggest mistake they've ever made. Harsh, but at least they had the balls to admit it. They do their best by them, but that seething resentment is there, bubbling away.
( Davros' Granddad a voice of calm reason in a world of spastics., Thu 24 Apr 2008, 13:03, closed)

@CHCB
I agree with you about using that line, but having kids does give you a different perspective on things.
( Bert Monkeysex is waiting for the mods to delete him, Thu 24 Apr 2008, 13:04, closed)

pobblepop
when / if you have one your own, those nappy buckets and stuff really pales in comparison to the good stuff.

there is more good than bad to being a dad


yay it rhymed!
(Dan dan dan They tik urh jerbs!!!, Thu 24 Apr 2008, 13:04, closed)

^^ You're doing it again
Things vary from situation to situation.

I had kids now, I'd hate it, I've not got enough income to provide for them.
I'd KNOW I could have done better if I'd have waited or not had them.
( Cawl, Thu 24 Apr 2008, 13:07, closed)

@Sexmonkey
yup, different perspective yes. Super perceptive powers, no (otherwise I'd have kids just for the powers).

And the corollary is that therefore the childless also have a different perspective, so you child owners don't know what it's like to have an adult life without children. Perhaps you're the ones missing out...
( crackhouseceilidhband Fuck off back to Mumsnet, Thu 24 Apr 2008, 13:08, closed)

Quote 'When / If you have one of your own you will understand what i mean.'
I've known many new mothers be forcefully separated from their baby by the State for extreme post natal depression, they were a danger to themselves and their child. There was no love or understanding, just a plain fucking hatred for the thing that popped out of them, and this is not an abnormal reaction, just an extreme end of the scale.
( Brandy_Bumwinkle, Thu 24 Apr 2008, 13:08, closed)

8^)
Kaol

i understand.
(Dan dan dan They tik urh jerbs!!!, Thu 24 Apr 2008, 13:09, closed)

@Kaol
Sorry, I'm not suggesting everybody should go out and have kids now, and I'm sure Dan... isn't either.

It is a life-changing experience, which if you're not prepared for it could ruin you.
I seem to be able to muddle through quite happily on quite a low income.
( Bert Monkeysex is waiting for the mods to delete him, Thu 24 Apr 2008, 13:09, closed)

May I Say...
...For several reasons I think this has been the most interesting QOTW since I started getting hooked on B3ta.

A nice mix of reasoned argument and goat sex.

I can certainly see both sides of the story here. I don't have children of my own but was seeing a girl for a while who had a five and a three year old daughter which scared me at first as I was only 21 at the time, but after spending some time with the kids I saw what a joyful experience it can be, and the three year old absolutely adored me which was a lovely feeling.
I can say that while I'm not in any rush to be a dad I don't feel scared of parenthood and would probably relish it.
( Boss Keloid Got your mother's maiden name tattooed on my arm, Thu 24 Apr 2008, 13:09, closed)

And just maybe
I like my perspective the way it is? It's mine after all.
(Bicycle Repairman "you're also a bit of a wanker", Thu 24 Apr 2008, 13:10, closed)

pobblepop
yes, thats an extreme medical condition.

unfair to all parties, but can hardly be predicted.

it is a shame when it does happen, though i doubt if it can be prevented. Its a bit of a lottery im afraid. I consider my self very lucky.
(Dan dan dan They tik urh jerbs!!!, Thu 24 Apr 2008, 13:11, closed)

Again, CHCB
I agree, we are missing out on many things, but as a different side to the same coin, so are those who choose not to have kids.
Personally, I would hate the idea of never having children.

I'm not trying to change anybody's perspective, just giving my own point of view.
( Bert Monkeysex is waiting for the mods to delete him, Thu 24 Apr 2008, 13:11, closed)

WIthout trying to be mean
You have oinly been a dad for 4 years, your kid is going to go through puberty and all that nightmare stuff, maybe you'd be less judgemental once you've been through "all" that parenthood has to offer, not jsu tthe cuter bits.

Plus it kind of sounds like it's not you doing any of the hard work here, just the fun stuff, maybe that is tainting your view somewhat too!
(Jugular, Thu 24 Apr 2008, 13:12, closed)

@Jugular
That's one of the silliest things I've ever heard, I don't think any parent could ever avoid the bad stuff completely.
My daughter's six, I'm actually looking forward to the day she becomes an ungrateful, independent teenager. If she doesn't throw everything I've ever given her back in my face when she's 14, frankly I'll be disappointed.
( Bert Monkeysex is waiting for the mods to delete him, Thu 24 Apr 2008, 13:16, closed)

Jugular,
hmmm, i can see how make that assumption.

however, i have seen ALL the bad sides too, which un reflection werent so bad, just a bit scary. mainly because id never been in that situation before. Yes, i have all the puberty thing to come, but in the fiorst 4 nearly 5 yrsI have dreaded what was coming, thinking it would be horrible, what it turned out to be was a massive adventure (still ongoing)

ive been up at 2am bottle feeding, washin him in the bath when his nappy exploded filling his trousers, slept at his bedised for 48 hrs at hospital when he was sick, spent every saturday since september in the freezing cold watching him run around a football pitch in training.

to be honest even though the above were 'bad times' they truly werent. I was just scared, and on reflection wuoldnt change thast time with my son for the world.

Any parent will understand that. Even the bad times are good times. Ive never had that experience with anythin else in my life.
(Dan dan dan They tik urh jerbs!!!, Thu 24 Apr 2008, 13:19, closed)

Dan!
*manhugs*

You sound like a great dad.
( Bert Monkeysex is waiting for the mods to delete him, Thu 24 Apr 2008, 13:22, closed)

<pats bert monkey sex on the back>
.
(Dan dan dan They tik urh jerbs!!!, Thu 24 Apr 2008, 13:30, closed)

Don't be coy
I know how tough it can be, being a dad, you hardly get any time to yourself anymore...

*unzips*
( Bert Monkeysex is waiting for the mods to delete him, Thu 24 Apr 2008, 13:30, closed)

erm...
...

er..


......
(Dan dan dan They tik urh jerbs!!!, Thu 24 Apr 2008, 13:33, closed)

It's ok, Dan
I'm just trying to lower the tone of what was a good debate.

*inserts*
( Bert Monkeysex is waiting for the mods to delete him, Thu 24 Apr 2008, 13:34, closed)

erm, i knew that, erm,
yeah, i mean, of course.


(quickly puts on iron chastity belt)


'and relax'
(Dan dan dan They tik urh jerbs!!!, Thu 24 Apr 2008, 13:40, closed)

Well
It's just as well I firmly believe in people being entitled to an opinion. The opinion of people who don't want children, especially women, is so often dismissed or ignored by parents who cannot see someone else's point of view becuase of their own little darlings.

This week's QOTW has been fabulous in the respect of finding like-minded people as I am so often treated like a social pariah/mentalist for not wanting children.

I point you to my answer this week, ask you to see how offensive it is to say "you were a child once" and leave it at that

www.b3ta.com/questions/kids/post143862
(Jugular, Thu 24 Apr 2008, 14:18, closed)