go on then, give me an example of a society with a "left" government that has worked well
cuba? north korea? soviet states?
( rachelswipe with a fork, Fri 21 Jan 2011, 16:27, 4 replies, latest was 15 years ago)

Ants
Historically left of centre and highly succesful colonisers
( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Fri 21 Jan 2011, 16:29, Reply)

actually this makes my point better than i did
hmmm
( rachelswipe with a fork, Fri 21 Jan 2011, 16:30, Reply)

So the massive inequalities
demonstrated by a "right" government are just as much to strive for are they? edit - I meant to put in something like the american system

Or could it be that, in advocating something of a fairer society he isn't in fact advocating a communist government, but simply a more socially minded capitalist set up? But then, it's a lot harder to argue against that than it is to set up a nice straw man argument.
(Bazongaloid, Fri 21 Jan 2011, 16:30, Reply)

This is just like
the sort of thing NICK CLEGG AND HIS CRONIES would say.
( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Fri 21 Jan 2011, 16:33, Reply)

The Big Society, thaht's the answer

( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Fri 21 Jan 2011, 16:33, Reply)

You're not in favour of unrestrained capitalism?
YOU MUST BE A COMMIE. GO BACK TO NK, HIPPIE.

A debating tactic beloved by Americans all over the internet. She'll be calling you worse than Hitler next.
( Kroney, Fri 21 Jan 2011, 16:35, Reply)

Most people are worse than Hitler if you ask me.
GO ON, ASK ME.
( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Fri 21 Jan 2011, 16:36, Reply)

I ASK

( Kroney, Fri 21 Jan 2011, 16:38, Reply)

THEY'RE WORSE.

( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Fri 21 Jan 2011, 17:05, Reply)

Monty
on the balance of things, would you say most people are better or worse than Hitler?
(Bazongaloid, Fri 21 Jan 2011, 16:41, Reply)

WORSE AL, MUCH, MUCH WORSE.

( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Fri 21 Jan 2011, 16:56, Reply)

A list of people who are worse at Genocide than Hitler:
Sarah Palin
Andy Peters
My gran (although given the right circumstances)
King Kong
Dave Lee Travis
( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Fri 21 Jan 2011, 16:42, Reply)

To be fair to DLT
He did say he was going to kill Edmonds after he got give a 'Gotcha' oscar.

And shortly after (possibly) Michael Lush croaked.

There might be a connection there.
( JeffTheDogFucker Can you dig it?, Fri 21 Jan 2011, 16:45, Reply)

Now, now
let's give Palin a chance, she might turn out to be much better at genocide.

And Andi Peters. I don't trust the shifty trouser-troubler.
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Fri 21 Jan 2011, 16:51, Reply)

Hang on a sec, I've got a terrible sense of de ja vue here
Have we had this exact same conversation before?
(Bazongaloid, Fri 21 Jan 2011, 16:38, Reply)

Every other day, practically.

( Kroney, Fri 21 Jan 2011, 16:43, Reply)

no
it just doesn't allow for as much friday afternoon flippancy...
( rachelswipe with a fork, Fri 21 Jan 2011, 16:37, Reply)

Any and all of the Scandinavian states.
Germany was pretty left wing for a long time.

Edit - I think you are rather confusing "left-wing" for "communist" here.
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Fri 21 Jan 2011, 16:37, Reply)

no
it's just a friday afternoon, is all.

although speaking of woolly lefties, i still can't believe how different you look to how you looked in my head...
( rachelswipe with a fork, Fri 21 Jan 2011, 16:39, Reply)

Fair does, I thought you were probably being flippant
but you have to check.

I can take a picture of me angrily shaking my fist at a bank if it would make you feel better? Mostly Barclays for only have TWO cunting branches in Scotland, the arsebadgers.
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Fri 21 Jan 2011, 16:42, Reply)

What does he look like?
I have in my mind an image of a 1970s Geography teacher, thinning ginger hair, a ratty moustache, a cheap sports jacket with leather elbow patches and houndstooth trousers going shiny at the knees.

Am I right?
(Bazongaloid, Fri 21 Jan 2011, 16:42, Reply)

You forgot the slight staining on his crotch

( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Fri 21 Jan 2011, 16:44, Reply)

steady, now. That's spilt beer.

( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Fri 21 Jan 2011, 16:55, Reply)

You're spot on.
Well, apart from being entirely wrong, but I can tell you're getting tumescent so I didn't want to spoil your semi.
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Fri 21 Jan 2011, 16:45, Reply)

tbh
he's kind of nailed what i thought you looked like too... only i thought you might be hairier than he puts it.
( rachelswipe with a fork, Fri 21 Jan 2011, 16:56, Reply)

Ginger?
seriously, you thought I was ginger? Fucking hell.
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Fri 21 Jan 2011, 16:58, Reply)

well yeah
you sounded all angry and bitter, you know?!?
( rachelswipe with a fork, Fri 21 Jan 2011, 16:59, Reply)

angry and bitter?
coming from the lady whose every second post is ranting about men, traffic wardens, work and tax?
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Fri 21 Jan 2011, 17:14, Reply)

it's not ranting
it's delightful sweet tongue in cheek witticisms.
( rachelswipe with a fork, Fri 21 Jan 2011, 17:19, Reply)

ah, righto.

( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Fri 21 Jan 2011, 17:38, Reply)

You only seem to think a measure of "worked well"
is how much money they make.
Most european companies are left and their societies are doing pretty well. Sweden has 100% litracy rate, one of the lowest crime reoffending rates in the world. Cuba one of the best healthcare systems in the world, it's people have a great life expectancy and very low child mortality.
Bhutan has the happiest population in the world and their king is basically a hippy.
(PsychoChomp, Fri 21 Jan 2011, 16:39, Reply)

I heard that that healthcare thing was bullshit

( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Fri 21 Jan 2011, 16:43, Reply)

i didn't have to go into hospital when i was there
but the outside did not look promising
( rachelswipe with a fork, Fri 21 Jan 2011, 16:48, Reply)

have you been to cuba?
i have.

the people have nothing and the shops are empty and they live with chickens and other animals in their houses. the police wander everywhere with guns, blatantly ripping everyone off (it cost me all the cash i had on me to bribe them not to arrest me. for having my hair braided and therefore paying cash. to an 8 months pregnant girl. then they took her cash too). you can't even send postcards because the government censor them. you have to have your suitcases sealed in cellophane so that the airport staff don't steal everything. and all the doctors and nurses are giving up their jobs to go and work as maids in the tourist hotels because they earn more money in tips that way.

it's great for a holiday as a westerner. it's not so great to live there.
( rachelswipe with a fork, Fri 21 Jan 2011, 16:44, Reply)

There's a pretty good counter argument
about how Cuba could be a lot better off if America stopped fucking it over. But lets skip that and BURN THE HIPPIES!
(Bazongaloid, Fri 21 Jan 2011, 16:46, Reply)

the problem is, al
that if you like the finer things in life, you have to be a bit of a right-wing twat to get your hands on them. liberal/left principles just don't pay that well for most people. if you genuinely don't really care where you live/what you can do/where you can go on holiday, it's fine. if you don't want to be saying "can i afford to go out for dinner this weekend" and you DON'T like that then... you need to be a bit more evil.
( rachelswipe with a fork, Fri 21 Jan 2011, 16:54, Reply)

Hmmmm, the problem here is entirely ideological
You think you have to be a cunt to get where you are, but the only reason for that is you are surrounded by other cunts who think they have to cunts too.

Rewards for personal effort can exist quite happily alongside caring for society at large, but only if people are prepared not to be utterly fucking selfish.
(Bazongaloid, Fri 21 Jan 2011, 16:59, Reply)

I've always managed to retain the finer things in life
and as we've established, I'm terribly left-wing and liberal. If only I could knit, I'd knit my own yoghurt.
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Fri 21 Jan 2011, 16:59, Reply)

Some of them are nig-nogs, too.

( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Fri 21 Jan 2011, 16:47, Reply)

Why shouldn't you be arrested for having your hair braided?

( JeffTheDogFucker Can you dig it?, Fri 21 Jan 2011, 16:50, Reply)

Have you ever been to london?
Police wander everywhere with guns, people are always stealing things and people have cats and dogs in their houses etc.
(PsychoChomp, Fri 21 Jan 2011, 16:53, Reply)

I blame Nick Clegg and his cronies for this.

( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Fri 21 Jan 2011, 16:54, Reply)

Check out Barry from Eastenders list of crimes committed in the Capitol
the thieving pikey
( Light In Chains maker of the ikea sofa, Fri 21 Jan 2011, 16:55, Reply)

You can't
he's even nicked the list of things he's nicked. He's a little bit wahey, he's a little bit wooooo, he's a one-man crime wave. He'll nick ANYTHING.
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Fri 21 Jan 2011, 16:57, Reply)

I can't remember the full details but his thievery occurs under an alias, so it doesn't matter if he gets nicked or not
I'm still baffled by this
( Light In Chains maker of the ikea sofa, Fri 21 Jan 2011, 17:00, Reply)

i am not sure if you are out-flippancing me now
for my own sanity i am going to assume so, because nobody could draw a serious parallel between havana and london. and yeah, having two goats and ten chickens (like the house i was invited into) in the lounge is EXACTLY the same as a cat...

bloody woolly liberals, no common-sense.
( rachelswipe with a fork, Fri 21 Jan 2011, 16:57, Reply)

And having a liberal view point
and thinking that people who earn the most should pay the most tax is EXACTLY the same as communism.
(Bazongaloid, Fri 21 Jan 2011, 17:00, Reply)

it certainly feels that way when you're the bastard who will be in work (i) late tonight
(ii) tomorrow morning (iii) all day sunday

and will be getting raped for tax at the end of the month, yes!
( rachelswipe with a fork, Fri 21 Jan 2011, 17:02, Reply)

Sucks to be you then doesn't it
I'm going to be having fun this weekend with my friends, and I'll probably pay less tax than you.

But, you live right in the middle of central London, drive an expensive sports car, are a member of a nice gym and have loads of nice shoes. And on top of that, you'll almost certainly have more money in your bank account than I do.

On the flip side I spent most of my savings from the last five years on a ford fiesta, I live in a small terraced house on the outskirts of london which I can only afford because of sharing the mortgage with my wife and the generosity of my parents in getting a deposit together, I haven't bought a pair of shoes for over a year and I owe nearly 3 Grand on a credit card.

So, you see, you may pay more tax, but you are still better off than me, and if you didn't want to work all those hours, you are not being forced to. You are simply being well rewarded for the hours you do work.
(Bazongaloid, Fri 21 Jan 2011, 17:07, Reply)

nah, it's great
i'm also at a birthday party tonight, out tomorrow night, and out for dinner on sunday night. i like my job and although i prefer not working weekends, it's interesting and massively challenging.

also the honest truth is, i couldn't live as i do if i had a mortgage even on my city salary. but then my dad earned every single penny of it himself, they come no more working-class than him!
( rachelswipe with a fork, Fri 21 Jan 2011, 17:18, Reply)

Ugh, an arriviste.
How simply vile.
( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Fri 21 Jan 2011, 17:20, Reply)

worse than that monty
proper peasant stock, i'm afraid. his mother worked down t'mills and his father worked on t'railways.
( rachelswipe with a fork, Fri 21 Jan 2011, 17:23, Reply)

Eeee, by 'eck.
There's nowt as queer as folk.

I'm not calling your pater a bender here, by the way.
( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Fri 21 Jan 2011, 17:25, Reply)

i wouldn't
he might be 67 but he's still built like a block of yorkshire stone, there's more fat on a butcher's pencil!
( rachelswipe with a fork, Fri 21 Jan 2011, 17:31, Reply)

Eee, champion.
Nowt taken out.
( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Fri 21 Jan 2011, 17:54, Reply)

I bet I miss the however-many hundreds of quid a month in tax that I pay
A damn sight more than you miss the however-many thousands you pay.

Which is kind of the point in charging higher earners more in tax.
( Kroney, Fri 21 Jan 2011, 17:13, Reply)

'litracy' lol

( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Fri 21 Jan 2011, 16:44, Reply)

I dunno where the fuck you got the ideas about Cuba from
you're right about Sweden, same is true of Norway and Denmark too. But Cuba? totally fucked. And Bhutan happy? there's no "measure" of happy. Bhutan is probably the most technologically backward state in the world, though.
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Fri 21 Jan 2011, 16:47, Reply)

what about swaziland?
i believe the country is starving, but the king ordered a shit load of really expensive cars for himself and his thousands of wives.

there is only 1 road in the entire country they can drive them on. ffs.
( rachelswipe with a fork, Fri 21 Jan 2011, 16:49, Reply)

Did he buy them with money from his fan club?
Or am I getting the King confused with Steadman from Five Star?
( JeffTheDogFucker Can you dig it?, Fri 21 Jan 2011, 16:51, Reply)

lol

( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Fri 21 Jan 2011, 17:00, Reply)

yeah, but since dictatorship is the "ultimate" in right-wing government
you aren't helping you own argument, here ;)

no, you're right, I suspect there are lots of countries that are pretty tied on being "least technologically advanced" although I think Bhutan was quoted as the last country on earth to get a phone line anywhere.
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Fri 21 Jan 2011, 16:54, Reply)

i just fancy having a pink palace
that's all, really.
( rachelswipe with a fork, Fri 21 Jan 2011, 16:59, Reply)

You should have said earlier.
I'd imagine that when Rod Hull died, Emu's pink windmill was up for grabs.

There's somebody at the door.
There's somebody at the door.
There's somebody at the door.
( JeffTheDogFucker Can you dig it?, Fri 21 Jan 2011, 17:00, Reply)

And you shall.
When your prince comes. Well, probably a little bit after, give the chap time to fall straight to sleep first.
( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Fri 21 Jan 2011, 17:01, Reply)

You know what I heard?
The Bhutan Clan ain't nuthin' ta fuck with.
( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Fri 21 Jan 2011, 16:51, Reply)

Ol' Dirty Bhutan.

( the mighty badger Aphrodite, on a bar stool, by your side, Fri 21 Jan 2011, 16:56, Reply)