I don't think video games are the same
as films, music or books in terms of art. Maybe one day they will be, but right now they really aren't.
( Amberl was stripey and dominated Europe, Thu 10 Mar 2011, 9:57, 2 replies, latest was 15 years ago)

Personal opinion and all that
But what qualities do you believe video games lack that prohibit them from being considered art?
( Labia Majora You keep on talking but it makes no sense at all, Thu 10 Mar 2011, 9:59, Reply)

They're generally simplistically plotted
in terms of motive and possible divergent courses. The graphics don't really impress me enough to divert attention. The main problem is they're not over-all good enough. They can have great story perhaps, or great graphics, but to qualify as art they have to be a coherent whole
( Amberl was stripey and dominated Europe, Thu 10 Mar 2011, 10:03, Reply)

Given some of the shit that qualifies as "art" these days
that's a crap argument.
(Bazongaloid, Thu 10 Mar 2011, 10:04, Reply)

In reply to both you and Labs
you're qualifying as art then, anything that the author of it wants to claim is art?
( Amberl was stripey and dominated Europe, Thu 10 Mar 2011, 10:07, Reply)

Surely it's the audience that accepts it as art?

( Labia Majora You keep on talking but it makes no sense at all, Thu 10 Mar 2011, 10:17, Reply)

Which is why
it might be art to some people, but I haven't seen an example that qualifies by my definition yet
( Amberl was stripey and dominated Europe, Thu 10 Mar 2011, 10:28, Reply)

I accept that
But at least it seems that you're open to the possibility of games being considered as art.
( Labia Majora You keep on talking but it makes no sense at all, Thu 10 Mar 2011, 10:39, Reply)

Of course
the possibility exists.
( Amberl was stripey and dominated Europe, Thu 10 Mar 2011, 10:43, Reply)

As Chompy says below
You just haven't played the right games. You don't need to have amazing, lifelike graphics, a good number of modern art stuff frankly looks like a 5 year old ate too many crayons and sharted over a canvas.
( Labia Majora You keep on talking but it makes no sense at all, Thu 10 Mar 2011, 10:05, Reply)

if you (as in one, not as in you labia majora!) have a demanding job and a good social life
and go to the gym or otherwise exercise, when do you find time to play these things? i am not being sarky, i am genuinely interested!
( rachelswipe with a fork, Thu 10 Mar 2011, 10:13, Reply)

If you work 9 til 5:30
Spend an hour or so at the gym, and don't spend every evening or whole weekend out with people, then there's still plenty of time to play games.
( Labia Majora You keep on talking but it makes no sense at all, Thu 10 Mar 2011, 10:16, Reply)

9-5.30?
christ, i wish.
( rachelswipe with a fork, Thu 10 Mar 2011, 10:19, Reply)

Quite a lot of people manage that just fine
I get all my work done within my contracted 37.5 hours a week, leaving my evenings and weekends for socialising or relaxing on my own, both of which can involve games, or not, depending on my mood.
( Labia Majora You keep on talking but it makes no sense at all, Thu 10 Mar 2011, 10:21, Reply)

i'm expected to hit 35 hours chargeable and 15 hours non-chargeable a week
and that's just the bits you can actually record :(
( rachelswipe with a fork, Thu 10 Mar 2011, 10:25, Reply)

And that's your choice, and for that you are financially rewarded
but most people are not solicitors (thank god) and most people think that having a job should enable you to have the life you want, rather than your job being your life.
(Bazongaloid, Thu 10 Mar 2011, 10:28, Reply)

I'd say the recent Fallout games would fall under this then
I've not played New Vegas, but 3 was superb, and the graphics and sandbox environment are absolutely fantastic.
( Agnostic Antichrist Baltimora, Thu 10 Mar 2011, 10:06, Reply)

I would say the majority of games now have better graphics than most Manga films.
RPG's have trailed the way in motive and divergent courses, then since GTA 3 the third person sandbox games have got it down to an art.
(PsychoChomp, Thu 10 Mar 2011, 10:09, Reply)

I disagree, books and films can get completely dwarfed by the content that is in some video games.
Where as a film can have two hours, a book a week, video games can have months of content. In terms of lines in scripts, there are far more lines, it's not unusual for a video game to have 150k lines + of spoken or written script.
( G/PP 💩💩💩💩💩&#128, Thu 10 Mar 2011, 10:36, Reply)

You're playing the wrong games,
Half life 1 and 2 are better than most films and books.
Something like Limbo manipulates your emotions on the same level as the best books.
(PsychoChomp, Thu 10 Mar 2011, 10:01, Reply)

Half Life 2 is still one of my favourite games
Have you ever played Deathmatch online?

It's fucking insane.
( Agnostic Antichrist Baltimora, Thu 10 Mar 2011, 10:04, Reply)

Nope I've played a fair few games
some are fun. Some like Bioshock are the equivalant of an alright sci-fi novel. None of them have made me want to keep playing or made me feel actual emotion. Therefore for me they're not art.
( Amberl was stripey and dominated Europe, Thu 10 Mar 2011, 10:05, Reply)

surely the problem is
that none of them are as much fun as putting the mouse down and going out with REAL PEOPLE? i stare at a computer all day, often for more than 12 hours at a time, the last thing i want to do is play with one when i get home, however amazing the graphics might be!
( rachelswipe with a fork, Thu 10 Mar 2011, 10:10, Reply)

This is true
and probably the reason games don't engage me and I find the plots simplistic
( Amberl was stripey and dominated Europe, Thu 10 Mar 2011, 10:12, Reply)

Different types of fun.
Just because you do one doesn't mean you can't do another as well.

In fact, I would venture the argument that these REAL PEOPLE of which you speak are equally as capable of being shit and dull.
( Kroney, Thu 10 Mar 2011, 10:13, Reply)

WHEN, though?
i am either in the gym first thing and in work for 9 or in work for about 8. i work until about 8 and then i go out. or i am in work until about midnight, or at the gym. weekends i will usually be seeing someone for lunch and someone else in the evening, and on top of that i do shopping and other bits of admin as well as my oxford course. i'm a pretty average person, so when could i fit in playing computer games, if i were to try one?
( rachelswipe with a fork, Thu 10 Mar 2011, 10:15, Reply)

That's not really what I'm taking exception to.
It's your apparent attitude that one is inherently inferior to another because you don't happen to see the attraction. You're a bit Monty over it.

You are NOT a pretty average person. Take from that what you will.
( Kroney, Thu 10 Mar 2011, 10:16, Reply)

no i am not saying it's inferior as such
i am just saying that it's still on a COMPUTER, at the end of the day, when you've worked on one of the bastard things all week!
( rachelswipe with a fork, Thu 10 Mar 2011, 10:18, Reply)

I talk to idiotic people all week
why should I prefer to speak more people in the evening? It's preference, nothing more.
( Kroney, Thu 10 Mar 2011, 10:19, Reply)

if your missus and friends are idiotic
either you or they need to change
( rachelswipe with a fork, Thu 10 Mar 2011, 10:21, Reply)

No, they're not idiotic
but the people I speak to all day usually are.

The point I'm trying to make is that your argument sucks.
( Kroney, Thu 10 Mar 2011, 10:25, Reply)

then you may wish to edit your post above accordingly
until it correlates at least vaguely with what you are trying to say.
( rachelswipe with a fork, Thu 10 Mar 2011, 10:26, Reply)

*sigh* fine.
Happy now?
( Kroney, Thu 10 Mar 2011, 10:28, Reply)

Clearly many people do have time to play them or they wouldnt exist
which immediately proves that your claim to be a "pretty average person" is rubbish.
(Bazongaloid, Thu 10 Mar 2011, 10:18, Reply)

As Kroney says
An average person doesn't spend 12 hours or more at work, nor do they see people every single evening.
( Labia Majora You keep on talking but it makes no sense at all, Thu 10 Mar 2011, 10:18, Reply)

maybe i've been living in london too long
i'm distinctly average amongst my friends and colleagues!
( rachelswipe with a fork, Thu 10 Mar 2011, 10:21, Reply)

This is the biggest turn off to moving to London
The expectation that you work all hours. I have my work/life balance set just fine.
( Labia Majora You keep on talking but it makes no sense at all, Thu 10 Mar 2011, 10:22, Reply)

of course
one could NOT post on b3ta and leave at least an hour earlier.
( rachelswipe with a fork, Thu 10 Mar 2011, 10:23, Reply)

But Labs, many, many people live in London and work sensible hours
but when you're spending at least two hours bouncing on your boss's cock and then a further hour fluffing the head of HR, a girl like Swipey is going to end up working longer hours than normal people.
(Bazongaloid, Thu 10 Mar 2011, 10:26, Reply)

Things are strange in That There London Town

( Labia Majora You keep on talking but it makes no sense at all, Thu 10 Mar 2011, 10:27, Reply)

It's not all like that!
I manage to work, work out, eat, play video games and have an active social life.

Join us........
(Himjim died a little more inside on, Thu 10 Mar 2011, 10:30, Reply)

But what you're forgetting Labs
is that Swipey earns massively less than the average person, in fact, she's the least well paid person she knows, so to make up for her lack of actual money, of which we clearly have plenty, she has to settle for talking to people to pass the time.
(Bazongaloid, Thu 10 Mar 2011, 10:21, Reply)

i was here until 10pm last night
trying to identify an unregistered scrap of land on a map bigger than my office because some tool 3 years ago couldn't do his job properly.

there is not enough money in the world to make up for that, i am scarred for life.
( rachelswipe with a fork, Thu 10 Mar 2011, 10:23, Reply)

If you worked harder you could have a bigger office
Therefore the map would fit.
( Labia Majora You keep on talking but it makes no sense at all, Thu 10 Mar 2011, 10:26, Reply)

you have no idea how big this fucking map was
i think it contained all of wales
( rachelswipe with a fork, Thu 10 Mar 2011, 10:27, Reply)

Baudrillard lolz
See, Postmodernist Philosophy can be fun!
( Labia Majora You keep on talking but it makes no sense at all, Thu 10 Mar 2011, 10:29, Reply)

Sometimes all I want to do is NOT hang out with real people
Some sit down and watch tv, some read books, I play games.
( Labia Majora You keep on talking but it makes no sense at all, Thu 10 Mar 2011, 10:14, Reply)

Gaming can be a social thing too
At my old house, we'd get a friend to bring his projector round, set it up so it was on a blank wall, and have multiplayer sessions on loads of games, both new and old.
( Agnostic Antichrist Baltimora, Thu 10 Mar 2011, 10:14, Reply)

One does not neglate the other, and in fact, sitting around with your mates playing video games together can be quite social.
I think the steriotype of gamers spending all day every day is more and more becoming a thing of the past. Just because you have gaming has a hobby, it doesn't mean you can't do anything else.

Like with everything in life, moderation is the key.
( G/PP 💩💩💩💩💩&#128, Thu 10 Mar 2011, 10:32, Reply)

See also Planescape Torment for the story/script
Braid and Ico also.
( Labia Majora You keep on talking but it makes no sense at all, Thu 10 Mar 2011, 10:06, Reply)

In fairness,
the shit I had this morning was better than most films and books.
( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Thu 10 Mar 2011, 10:08, Reply)

Which is a fair enough point,
why are films and books still held above computer games then?
(PsychoChomp, Thu 10 Mar 2011, 10:14, Reply)

Art exists only for the sake of the art.
Therefore films, books and computer games are not art.
( Kroney, Thu 10 Mar 2011, 10:18, Reply)

What a gay post.

( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Thu 10 Mar 2011, 10:20, Reply)