New thread time methinks.
Sampling in music.
Theft or tribute?
IMO, it is unoriginal. Get yer own riff.
EDIT- It is decent if subtle, but OTT it becomes daft.
I don't like the implication that if a classic part of a song is put into a new song, it is an automatic improvement.
(Glucose-Maximus All over the world., Tue 25 Oct 2011, 21:10, 39 replies, latest was 14 years ago)

repurposing. Art always borrows
Also ow!

up2.it/ali/archery+arm1.JPG
( Citizen Cavy Admires your passion for conformity, Tue 25 Oct 2011, 21:12, Reply)

Erotic. And nasty.
How did you get your poorlie?
(Glucose-Maximus All over the world., Tue 25 Oct 2011, 21:12, Reply)

Archery
Getting better at it, but it was the first time using fingerslings, so the draw was a bit different
( Citizen Cavy Admires your passion for conformity, Tue 25 Oct 2011, 21:14, Reply)

Just how many people did you get though at 'wank school'?

( JeffTheDogFucker Can you dig it?, Tue 25 Oct 2011, 21:14, Reply)

Mr strongwrist.
Doesn't look like masturbatory injury to me.
(Glucose-Maximus All over the world., Tue 25 Oct 2011, 21:15, Reply)

this is what happens when you wank people off?!
Jeff, man, you're doing it wrong
( Citizen Cavy Admires your passion for conformity, Tue 25 Oct 2011, 21:16, Reply)

*Checks rule book*
Eeek! Hang on. I'm off to pleasure myself in a different way.
( JeffTheDogFucker Can you dig it?, Tue 25 Oct 2011, 21:17, Reply)

'ow' indeed

( b3th Not shit. Not mod., Tue 25 Oct 2011, 21:15, Reply)

I've had worse.

( JeffTheDogFucker Can you dig it?, Tue 25 Oct 2011, 21:16, Reply)

You're so brave

( b3th Not shit. Not mod., Tue 25 Oct 2011, 21:17, Reply)

what a guy!

( Citizen Cavy Admires your passion for conformity, Tue 25 Oct 2011, 21:17, Reply)

Ace Rimmer lols

( b3th Not shit. Not mod., Tue 25 Oct 2011, 21:18, Reply)

=
He's Arnold, Arnold, Arnold Rimmer
More reliable than a garden trimmer
He's never been mistaken for Yul Brynner
(Glucose-Maximus All over the world., Tue 25 Oct 2011, 21:20, Reply)

He's not bald and his head doesn't glimmer!
I mean, fuck off bert.
( b3th Not shit. Not mod., Tue 25 Oct 2011, 21:20, Reply)

Thanks.
That means a lot.

*Sobs*
( JeffTheDogFucker Can you dig it?, Tue 25 Oct 2011, 21:20, Reply)

Sampling is neither theft nor tribute. Samplers are musical instruments.
A musical instrument is a machine (regardless of simplicity or complexity) which is used to make music. Sampling is no different to composing- every note has been played, every chord has been played so there is no 'original' music left, merely simulacra. The only difference between hearing a guitar being played to make a G chord and listening to the same chord coming from a sampler is in your cultural expectation.

Trying to argue that music made with samplers, computers or turntables is somehow 'inferior' or 'not real music' is pretty much the same as claiming that a novel typed using a computer isn't real writing because the author didn't use a pen. You should maybe go and read some Buroughs , Baudrillard and Barthes.

There is terrible, hackneyed, derivative music on both sides of the acoustic/electric divide.

And anyway, computers and samplers can do so much more with sound than can be achieved with traditional instruments.

EDIT: And once it's been recorded, it's a sample anyway. Is the OP seriously suggesting that the only worthwhile music is live? I sincerely hope not.
(dozers, do fuck off ur a nob m8, Tue 25 Oct 2011, 21:28, Reply)

I hate agreeing with you
but I do
( Citizen Cavy Admires your passion for conformity, Tue 25 Oct 2011, 21:30, Reply)

Sorry, but I can't take your comment there seriously.
It was composed using electronic means. You should have used a quill pen. I could just about countenance a fountain pen. But nothing more advanced than that.
(dozers, do fuck off ur a nob m8, Tue 25 Oct 2011, 21:32, Reply)

Sampling started in music long before computers or turntables became widespread.
Karlheinz Stockhausen's "Hymnen" (1966) is one of the strongest and most extensive pieces based entirely on samples of other music, in this case national anthems.

Also, the earliest reasonably well-known piece to use a record player as an instrument in its own right is generally thought to be John Cage's "Imaginary Landscape No. 1" (1939).
( The Mock TurtIe ™ --- Thinks you are a cunt, on, Tue 25 Oct 2011, 22:03, Reply)

I know this.
My point was that being a manipulation of a prerecorded sound does not disqualify it from being considered music.
(dozers, do fuck off ur a nob m8, Tue 25 Oct 2011, 22:06, Reply)

Agreed.

( The Mock TurtIe ™ --- Thinks you are a cunt, on, Tue 25 Oct 2011, 22:15, Reply)

But the most important question is...
Would you do bad, bad things with and to Rihanna? This may involve leashes, whipped cream, stockings, red noses and vaseline.
(dozers, do fuck off ur a nob m8, Tue 25 Oct 2011, 22:19, Reply)

Maybe, if I could overlook her resemblance to the Mekon from Dan Dare.

( The Mock TurtIe ™ --- Thinks you are a cunt, on, Tue 25 Oct 2011, 22:22, Reply)

I see no resemblance.

(dozers, do fuck off ur a nob m8, Tue 25 Oct 2011, 22:28, Reply)

Must just be me then.

( The Mock TurtIe ™ --- Thinks you are a cunt, on, Tue 25 Oct 2011, 22:33, Reply)

Must be.
I wouldn't touch the Mekon with yours.
(dozers, do fuck off ur a nob m8, Tue 25 Oct 2011, 22:34, Reply)

That sort of implication is used in stuff that is vulgar and aimed at spastics.
Have a listen to Endtroducing or Ghostwriter for subtle, witty, emotional music made entirely from samples.

EDIT:

Or Coldcut
Or Portishead's first two records for the Burroughs effect. They recorded themselves to vinyl, then Geoff Barrow used the records for scratching and sampling. EXPLAIN THAT, FREEFAIR!
Or Attica Blues
Or vintage hip hop like Public Enemy, NWA, JVC F.O.R.C.E. or DJ Premier's stuff.
(dozers, do fuck off ur a nob m8, Tue 25 Oct 2011, 21:36, Reply)

For example Rhianna's "Please don't stop the Music"?
Anywayz, I agree with you.
(Glucose-Maximus All over the world., Tue 25 Oct 2011, 21:38, Reply)

Precisely.
Vulgar music for spastics. Go and have a listen to DJ Shadow's Building Steam With a Grain of Salt.

That's not to say I wouldn't want to do very bad things to and with Rihanna. Of course I would. But her music is shite.

Go on FreeFair, one knows one wants to.
(dozers, do fuck off ur a nob m8, Tue 25 Oct 2011, 21:40, Reply)

I would very much so.

(Glucose-Maximus All over the world., Tue 25 Oct 2011, 21:45, Reply)

Endtroducing is outstanding
the man makes a good point
( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Tue 25 Oct 2011, 21:42, Reply)

It still sounds great today.
I remember a review at the time described it as 'both slyly knowing and brilliantly naive'.

Sums it up really. The only two non-sampled-from-a-record bits on it (apart from the scratching obv) is the vocal line on Mutual Slump and the vocal at the beginning of Midnight in a Perfect World.

Have you heard RJD2's first album Ghostwriter? It came out on Def Jux about 2002. Very very good- similar thing to Endtroducing but with rappers on a few of the tracks.
(dozers, do fuck off ur a nob m8, Tue 25 Oct 2011, 21:47, Reply)

Generally, it's a genre where I don't know the name of anything, so can't say if I've heard the one you mention
I'll keep an ear out. I'm sure a couple of my mates have it.

I've been listening to some Future Sound of London recently, and another thing they did called Amorphous Androgynous, which is a compilation of psychadelic stuff. Very enjoyable.
( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Tue 25 Oct 2011, 21:49, Reply)

FSOL did some great stuff back in the day.
Papua New Guinea hasn't aged well.

Here's some RJD2 www.youtube.com/watch?v=SPuv6QE28yc

And I was incorrect, the album is called Deadringer. Ghostwriter is a track on it.
(dozers, do fuck off ur a nob m8, Tue 25 Oct 2011, 21:55, Reply)

that's good shit
cheers
( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Tue 25 Oct 2011, 21:59, Reply)

No problem.
I am an avid fan of instrumental hip hop. I collect vintage Mo Wax vinyl when I have the cash to buy wax.
(dozers, do fuck off ur a nob m8, Tue 25 Oct 2011, 22:01, Reply)

Just popped in to applaud plumdozer
*applauds*
Well done sir.
( tangledupinblue hairy badge with moving eyes, Tue 25 Oct 2011, 22:12, Reply)

Well done for what?
I am a confirmed postmodernist.

Culture ate itself a long time ago.
(dozers, do fuck off ur a nob m8, Tue 25 Oct 2011, 22:20, Reply)

Alright, alright...
I like the cut of your jib, is all.
That gobshite came in asking silly questions and I enjoyed your responses. I like it when people are passionate about music and form opinions based on understanding.
Culture? *reaches for revolver*
( tangledupinblue hairy badge with moving eyes, Wed 26 Oct 2011, 8:46, Reply)