He has a point.
Not everyone has the option to afford it.
( CQ Knows the truth, all of it., Wed 9 Nov 2011, 14:51, 2 replies, latest was 14 years ago)

I'm not looking to row about this
But swipe's comment was crass
( tangledupinblue hairy badge with moving eyes, Wed 9 Nov 2011, 14:54, Reply)

Fair enough but I disagree.
It's a harsh assessment of the current options.
(Set your faces to Stunned Bigly, Wed 9 Nov 2011, 14:57, Reply)

i paid for my education with scholarships from 8-21
as it happens. family wealth or lack of had nothing to do with it. brains and hard work definitely did.

but that's not really relevant here. the sad truth is, there are lots of things you can't do if you can't afford them. private healthcare. houses. cars. designer clothes. holidays. now a degree is miles more important than any of these, but unfortunately, when there are as many students in the country as there are, they can't all have it for free. someone has to pay for it, OR difficult choices have to be made about who should get it for free.

yes it fucking sucks giant balls if you want to go and you can't afford it. not denying that. but lots of things in life are really hard and suck. life is fucking hard and it sucks. why does anyone see it as their RIGHT to have their fees paid?
( rachelswipe with a fork, Wed 9 Nov 2011, 14:59, Reply)

Too many points to answer satisfactorily.
I make no comment on your personal circumstances. I don't know you, but as a lawyer you must be clever and you sound as though you have done alright for yourself.

I agree there is too much that people expect for nothing these days, I imagine this is a logical conclusion of a consumerist, capitalist society that keeps the poor poor - eventually they will kick up and demand nice things, even though they haven't worked to achieve them.

And finally, why does anyone see free education as their right?
Because we have a long history of free education.
Because the people who are taking it away had one.
Because their predecessors who began this sorry business claimed a mantra of "Education, education, education"
Because it is well-established that the better your education the better quality of life you can expect to have.
( tangledupinblue hairy badge with moving eyes, Wed 9 Nov 2011, 15:11, Reply)

Apologies - this response could and should be better written
but I am trying to look like I am working at the same time, and having to deal with constant interuptions.
( tangledupinblue hairy badge with moving eyes, Wed 9 Nov 2011, 15:12, Reply)

just because older generations got it for free
is not an argument. there are many more people in the country now, for a start. and the economy simply can't support it: look at the number of graduates who are unemployed.

this goes back to my previous argument: make it merit-based. if you get good grades and you are doing a good subject at a good university, it should be free. otherwise not.
( rachelswipe with a fork, Wed 9 Nov 2011, 15:17, Reply)

Would you say the same for the NHS?
Will your merit based system allow for positive discrimination for those from poorer backgrounds or who go to shit schools, who are less likely to get the good grades than their more affluent counterparts, even if they are brighter?

Also, our education system is broken all the way down to the start - "good" secondary schools nowadays tend to train children to pass the curriculum, rather than give them a grounding in education.
Research shows that the majority of education funding should be put into early years if you are ever going to lift children out of poverty. That was one really good thing that the previous administration were doing, when they weren't out waging wars.
( tangledupinblue hairy badge with moving eyes, Wed 9 Nov 2011, 15:26, Reply)

the problem with funding education in the early years
is if they don't get the support at home, it is wasted energy. somehow the parents need to be made to give more of a fuck.
( rachelswipe with a fork, Wed 9 Nov 2011, 15:30, Reply)

The research shows that if you can do good work with them before the age of five
Then they stand a much better chance, regardless of how shit their parents are.
( tangledupinblue hairy badge with moving eyes, Wed 9 Nov 2011, 15:32, Reply)

All of hers are
she likes to play the corporate bitch, Stunned on the other hand....
( CQ Knows the truth, all of it., Wed 9 Nov 2011, 15:00, Reply)

it's not crass
it's factual. i am not saying wealthy kids deserve an education but screw the rest. i am saying, life is fucking unfair, but if you can't pay for it, you're not entitled to it as of right.
( rachelswipe with a fork, Wed 9 Nov 2011, 15:02, Reply)

Then fucking tough.
Them's the breaks.

And that is bollocks because they will lend you the money. You may owe a fortune when you finish but that, for me, will encourage people out of hotel management degrees.
(Set your faces to Stunned Bigly, Wed 9 Nov 2011, 14:56, Reply)

You'll be on here complaining when you get substandard service in a hotel in a couple of years...

( tangledupinblue hairy badge with moving eyes, Wed 9 Nov 2011, 14:57, Reply)

In all likelihood.
But that is the sort of shit that should be vocational. Taxpayers, in times of austeriity, should not be paying for a Beatles degree from John Moores University.
(Set your faces to Stunned Bigly, Wed 9 Nov 2011, 15:01, Reply)

Citation needed
People on b3ta often rail against the pure nonsense spouted in the Daily Mail, yet people still come out with tosh like this.
Of course tax-payers should not fund filthy scousers doing a Beatles degree at John Moores and thankfully, they don't.
Silly Stunned.
( tangledupinblue hairy badge with moving eyes, Wed 9 Nov 2011, 15:15, Reply)

One of the scouse Uni's does.
www.reuters.com/article/2011/01/27/us-beatles-degree-odd-idUSTRE70Q60920110127

In your face!
(Set your faces to Stunned Bigly, Wed 9 Nov 2011, 15:26, Reply)

I didn't say that there were no Mickey Mouse degree courses in the world.
When you show me evidence of UK tax-payers funding such studies I will (un)happily eat my words and apologise.
( tangledupinblue hairy badge with moving eyes, Wed 9 Nov 2011, 15:31, Reply)

The problem is the only options available for kids now is the dole or higher education.
Even the clever ones aren't going to easily find jobs nowadays.
( girlinthehole, Wed 9 Nov 2011, 14:58, Reply)

this is also very very true
and yet more and more of our logistics and manufacturing goes abroad.
( rachelswipe with a fork, Wed 9 Nov 2011, 15:00, Reply)

Our industry can't find good engineers anymore.
We have a couple of useless nitwits here but we daren't get rid of them in case we can't find replacements.
( girlinthehole, Wed 9 Nov 2011, 15:02, Reply)

I agree with this.
But again, you CAN go to Uni. You will just owe a shitload of money when you are finished.
(Set your faces to Stunned Bigly, Wed 9 Nov 2011, 15:04, Reply)

This is what I mean.
There are kids going in to uni regardless of the debt. And let's face it we never thought that far ahead at that age. These are kids who would rather work or would be more suited to working instead of trying to get a degree they don't really care that much about.
( girlinthehole, Wed 9 Nov 2011, 15:06, Reply)

We need more techinical training
We should be training more plumbers, engineers etc, rather than art historians.
(Reverend Fister "a disciplined fuckwit", Wed 9 Nov 2011, 15:21, Reply)