Looks like they fucking deserved it

( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Mon 4 Mar 2013, 13:15, 1 reply, 12 years ago)

The police were armed with batons and shields.
The twenty or so "rioters" were armed with balsa wood sticks.
( tangledupinblue hairy badge with moving eyes, Mon 4 Mar 2013, 13:17, Reply)

and bricks.

( Windy Pig I'm naturally quite suspicious about the moon., Mon 4 Mar 2013, 13:18, Reply)

The bricks came from a wall that collapsed when the mounted police charged at a crowd largely consisting of families.
There is no footage in that clip of anyone throwing a brick.
In fact the only person holding a brick in that clip is a police officer.
( tangledupinblue hairy badge with moving eyes, Mon 4 Mar 2013, 13:20, Reply)

you can see them throwing stuff that isn't sticks.
You can clearly see protectors punching kicking and attacking police, regardless of how it started, attacking police officers is a dick move.
( Windy Pig I'm naturally quite suspicious about the moon., Mon 4 Mar 2013, 13:22, Reply)

At the risk of posting a "But he started it!"
Yes you are right, it is stupid to attack a police officer.
However, some dicks will fight back if they are attacked.
( tangledupinblue hairy badge with moving eyes, Mon 4 Mar 2013, 13:30, Reply)

if a police officer beats you up then you deserve to be beaten up, that's my view

(King Zog of Albania lives in Kensington, Mon 4 Mar 2013, 13:39, Reply)

yeah but they could have picked up bricks at any moment
I have no problems with pre-emptive strikes against smelly people
(King Zog of Albania lives in Kensington, Mon 4 Mar 2013, 13:35, Reply)

Why did they need sticks in the first place?

( sporters I’m sincerely gratitude to you, Mon 4 Mar 2013, 13:18, Reply)

They had banners attached to them.
I'm surprised there weren't more paper-cut injuries sustained by those poor mounted police with helmets, shields and batons.
( tangledupinblue hairy badge with moving eyes, Mon 4 Mar 2013, 13:22, Reply)

I was there too...
In my right on lefty way. unfortunately there were some dicks there that did want to start it... Admittedly the old bill overreacted and thats when it kicked off,
(Bonzodog29 is an unemployed sponge of the worst kind, Mon 4 Mar 2013, 13:28, Reply)

yeah you go
protesters = pricks
( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Mon 4 Mar 2013, 13:29, Reply)

Not all protestors are pricks
the vast majority are well meaning people wanting to make a point. however you will always have some dicks,
(Bonzodog29 is an unemployed sponge of the worst kind, Mon 4 Mar 2013, 13:42, Reply)

Not all police are pricks
the vast majority are well meaning people wanting to make a point. however you will always have some dicks,
( tangledupinblue hairy badge with moving eyes, Mon 4 Mar 2013, 13:43, Reply)

I think this is the truth.
I can believe the police over reacting to protectors pushing their luck getting at an area the police have been trying to keep them out of, as well as I can believe that 2 or 3 idiot protestors with the wrong attitude can turn the mood of an entire crowd.
( Windy Pig I'm naturally quite suspicious about the moon., Mon 4 Mar 2013, 13:50, Reply)

Did you not get the sense that the police were spoiling for a fight from the outset?

( tangledupinblue hairy badge with moving eyes, Mon 4 Mar 2013, 13:31, Reply)

Not in the slightest. What it looks like is protestors attempted to force the police line
and the police forced them right back again. Violence then ensued. The reporter says, right at the beginning of the report, that "six petrol bombs were recovered". Petrol bombs are not something you improvise in the middle of a fight. You prepare them beforehand. The people spoiling for a fight here were the protestors.
( Kroney, Mon 4 Mar 2013, 13:35, Reply)

The report was inaccurate.

( tangledupinblue hairy badge with moving eyes, Mon 4 Mar 2013, 13:44, Reply)

Now come on, you dont have to believe everything you hear.
The report does give a very one sided point of view, you will always have some elements that spoil for a fight in which ever crowd situation you are in. The problem was their were innocent protesters including kids etc. who were jammed up against a violent response from the old bill. As I said it was fine until the march bottle necked at the blockade and then it went properly scarey
(Bonzodog29 is an unemployed sponge of the worst kind, Mon 4 Mar 2013, 13:45, Reply)

I made my judgement from how it looked.
The protestors rushed the line.
( Kroney, Mon 4 Mar 2013, 13:46, Reply)

I completely understand
And of course the news outlets get the most "accurate offcial" reports from the old bill and can adapt it accordingly.
It is a bit like saying... I made my judgement on giving birth from a book I read called here comes the stork
(Bonzodog29 is an unemployed sponge of the worst kind, Mon 4 Mar 2013, 13:48, Reply)

That is how it was reported.
That is not what I saw.
( tangledupinblue hairy badge with moving eyes, Mon 4 Mar 2013, 14:02, Reply)

To be honest at first I had a chat with a few plod and they were sound.
It wasnt until we got near the blockade that it all got tense. There are always certain tensions on these things and lets be honest at that age you are in a situation when the old bill are something to fight against so there is always a bit of an atmosphere. Admittedly the report isnt very balanced.
Police horses are fucking big when they charge though,
(Bonzodog29 is an unemployed sponge of the worst kind, Mon 4 Mar 2013, 13:36, Reply)

I found it all rather terrifying.
I wasn't there to fight with the police and I didn't expect to be charged by them either.
( tangledupinblue hairy badge with moving eyes, Mon 4 Mar 2013, 13:39, Reply)

I agree,
And this is the point, once the police start to react in the way they did they become indiscriminant and people were getting badly hurt who did nothing against the law.
(Bonzodog29 is an unemployed sponge of the worst kind, Mon 4 Mar 2013, 13:46, Reply)

Yes, they do. They are trained to break up the crowd.
Sometimes people get caught out and sometimes innocent people get hurt. It is regrettable. What I take issue with is the statement from Tangles that the police were there to start a fight. They weren't. They got rushed, they reacted. That's all.
( Kroney, Mon 4 Mar 2013, 13:49, Reply)

Which I have to a certain extent agreed with,
However at no point are the police allowed to create collateral damage. You cannot make a statement to the effect that if you are on a demo you are fair game to a copper.
(Bonzodog29 is an unemployed sponge of the worst kind, Mon 4 Mar 2013, 13:51, Reply)

yeah you are
you know how a demo can turn out, therefore you should be prepared to be shoved in the back as you walk away triggering a devestating heart attack
( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Mon 4 Mar 2013, 13:57, Reply)

I phrased that badly
I don't mean that the police were there to start a fight, but at several points before that they gave the impression of a rather aggressive form of defence.
From where I was standing (which was quite near to where the orange smoke bomb was set off) the police attacked first.
( tangledupinblue hairy badge with moving eyes, Mon 4 Mar 2013, 14:02, Reply)

had the protestors been trying to push them back though?
You don't have to be punching and kicking to cause aggro.
( Windy Pig I'm naturally quite suspicious about the moon., Mon 4 Mar 2013, 14:06, Reply)

As I understand it the police forced a change to the planned route on the morning of the demonstration.
In order to facilitate this they lined the route with mounted officers.
The official line of the demonstration organisers was to stick to the revised route, however unhappy they were.
I'm not for one moment suggesting that there wasn't an element who intended to try to take the original route, but as I have repeatedly stated, the police were the ones doing the charging not the demonstrators.
We reached the fork in the route and, after all the argy-bargy, that is where the march ended.
( tangledupinblue hairy badge with moving eyes, Mon 4 Mar 2013, 14:11, Reply)

fair enough.
the charging through people's front garden thing is pretty inexcusable mind.
( Windy Pig I'm naturally quite suspicious about the moon., Mon 4 Mar 2013, 14:16, Reply)

Watch the footage.
You see how the riot police came in from behind the uniforms? That is because they were being held back in reserve. There was a line of normal policemen cordoning off a road. The riot police moved in because the crowd tried to force their way through the cordon. That is what happened. The police made no aggressive moves until your lot tried to force their way through. They were forced right back again and the mounted units moved into to disperse. That is standard riot control. It is still used today.

I'm getting sick of this conversation, now. I get that you didn't like it as you were caught in the middle and feel you didn't deserve it. The police were not there to start a fight. Your lot were. They got a kicking as a result and then bitched about it afterwards.

The end.
( Kroney, Mon 4 Mar 2013, 14:16, Reply)

Alright I've just watched again and I think you are referring to the bit around 40 seconds in.
You are correct that the riot police come from behind the normal officers.
I can't see any agression from the demonstrators before the push from the riot squad.
I'm not saying that people weren't trying to breach the cordon and take the planned route - I am saying that the police approach was disproportionate and overly aggressive.
The riot police were in evidence throughout the march, presumably as some kind of deterrent.
"My lot" were mainly families and college students and had no plans to breach any police lines.
( tangledupinblue hairy badge with moving eyes, Mon 4 Mar 2013, 14:27, Reply)

This

(Bonzodog29 is an unemployed sponge of the worst kind, Mon 4 Mar 2013, 14:52, Reply)

bricks that hurt a lot, even when wearing a helmet.

( Windy Pig I'm naturally quite suspicious about the moon., Mon 4 Mar 2013, 13:18, Reply)

are you suggesting then police shouldn't be protected in their place of work?

( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Mon 4 Mar 2013, 13:20, Reply)

Clearly the riot police aren't in fact there to put down rioters as quickly as possible in order to defend the surrounding innocent citizens
and are actually there to provide a series of set-piece battles featuring the exact equipment the rioters have. They should probably set up jousting lists.
( Kroney, Mon 4 Mar 2013, 13:29, Reply)

balsa woods sticks at dawn!

( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Mon 4 Mar 2013, 13:30, Reply)

*slaps with glove*

( sporters I’m sincerely gratitude to you, Mon 4 Mar 2013, 13:31, Reply)

*cries*

( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Mon 4 Mar 2013, 13:31, Reply)

It did rather seem as though they were there to do battle rather than, y'know, maintain the peace.

( tangledupinblue hairy badge with moving eyes, Mon 4 Mar 2013, 13:35, Reply)

Sorry Tangles, you're wrong.
www.b3ta.com/questions/offtopic/post1883925

The protestors instigated the whole thing. I know it's en vogue for hippies to hate the police and think of them as brutal commissars whose purpose is to destroy individual freedoms or some shit like that, but you are being daft.
( Kroney, Mon 4 Mar 2013, 13:37, Reply)

I don't hate the police.
There were no petrol bombs thrown.
There were many people who sustained baton injuries on the backs of their heads.

The story, as reported by ITN, does not reflect my eyewitness account.
( tangledupinblue hairy badge with moving eyes, Mon 4 Mar 2013, 13:42, Reply)

Which is the view of one person, from one small area of the protest
and doesn't reflect the whole. No petrol bombs were thrown. Six were recovered. Why would you make petrol bombs if you weren't intending to throw them? Some of the protestors went there with the intent of starting a riot. The police reacted and you were caught in the middle. The police were not there "looking for a fight".
( Kroney, Mon 4 Mar 2013, 13:45, Reply)

Actually I think the police probably did like a rumble in those days
having cut there teeth in the 80's, but still the rioters didn't have to be there the police did
( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Mon 4 Mar 2013, 13:48, Reply)

My dad was a copper in the Eighties and was present for the Brixton riots.
They operated a zero tolerance policy. I'm not saying it's right, but I am saying they didn't turn up to these thigns looking for an excuse to break heads.
( Kroney, Mon 4 Mar 2013, 13:52, Reply)

Again, it wouldnt be beyond the old bill to grab any old bottle and claim it was a petrol bomb.

(Bonzodog29 is an unemployed sponge of the worst kind, Mon 4 Mar 2013, 13:53, Reply)

None of the people I saw were armed.
All of the police were.
Which ones came ready for a fight?
( tangledupinblue hairy badge with moving eyes, Mon 4 Mar 2013, 14:12, Reply)

You're being ridiculous.

( Kroney, Mon 4 Mar 2013, 14:13, Reply)

Kind of.
But only in response to your slightly ridiculous statements.
The difference is that you are basing most of your opinions on this particular case on that news clip.
I am basing mine on my personal experience of the case, which differs from how it was reported.
( tangledupinblue hairy badge with moving eyes, Mon 4 Mar 2013, 14:15, Reply)

Your personal experience is every bit as biased as that new report.
I am basing my opinion on what I saw from the video footage, not what comes out of the reporter's mouth, I am also taking into account my own knowledge of police procedure that I got from my father. No doubt also biased. The police were expecting a riot. They came equipped for dealilng with a riot. The protestors lived down to expectations and got dispersed.
( Kroney, Mon 4 Mar 2013, 14:19, Reply)

I said that right at the start of this:
www.b3ta.com/questions/offtopic/post1883850

I also was trying to avoid a "He started it, Miss!" line of argument, as it doesn't really matter when people are getting hurt.
However, my assertion is that it was the police who created the situation, not the demonstrators.
( tangledupinblue hairy badge with moving eyes, Mon 4 Mar 2013, 14:30, Reply)

Which is fine. But you're wrong.

( Kroney, Mon 4 Mar 2013, 14:57, Reply)

Quite possibly.
I was only seventeen at the time and that is how it seemed to me.

I have tried not to deal in black and white here - deliberately using words/phrases like 'seem' or 'from where I was standing'

I still have a healthy respect for a police force, but I saw a different side on that day.
( tangledupinblue hairy badge with moving eyes, Mon 4 Mar 2013, 15:03, Reply)

I like how you used quote marks to suggest they weren't really rioting

(King Zog of Albania lives in Kensington, Mon 4 Mar 2013, 13:31, Reply)

just a bit of rough and tumble innit
that's how the old couple cowering in their bathroom and as a thousand stinking lefties piled through their pagonias saw it.
( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Mon 4 Mar 2013, 13:32, Reply)