not putting this on the main qotw because it's not funny
but I'd like some other views.

Faith. It must be a nice thing to have, but I just can't.

I can't bring myself to believe in anything without some evidence, or at least a plausible-sounding hypothesis....or even a ridiculous hypothesis for that matter.

I don't know a lot about religions other than christianity, and not a great deal about that either, to be honest. I'm quite certain that a lot of scientific theories will be proved to be right or wrong as things progress. Evolution could well be wrong (it's probably not, but that's not the point) but at least some people are giving it some serious thought.

Obviously there are people giving religion serious thought too, but they aren't proving (or disproving) anything, even within the current boundaries of our experience and knowledge, which brings me back to my original point.

How can someone just have faith in something like that?

I can't understand it to such an extent that I've babbled this load of bilge to strangers on the internet.
( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Thu 19 Mar 2009, 18:51, 13 replies, latest was 16 years ago)

Prepares to be shot down
I've always viewed religion as a crutch for people to lean on to get them through life.

As intelligent and civilised beings we can decide our own morality and codes by which to live our lives - To be restricted by the words of someone who reckoned he was laying down the word of god is daft when every fibre of our being screams "choose!". That faith is just easier to accept than to look for answers.

And while I'm on it - Religious wars are stupid. It's like arguing: Which is better? Pepsi or Coke?.
(SpunkyMcSpunkbubble Diddled your nubbin on, Thu 19 Mar 2009, 19:01, Reply)

Spunky's pretty much correct
as far as I'm concerned.

And if you knew my surname, you'd find it ironic that I'm an Atheist!
(Ethelred is watching cheese grow, Thu 19 Mar 2009, 19:04, Reply)

@ Ethel
What's your name then?

Bobby Muslim?
( Boss Keloid Got your mother's maiden name tattooed on my arm, Thu 19 Mar 2009, 19:06, Reply)

I believe
that whatever we know, or think we know, or believe, is almost certainly wrong... the universe is far weirder than we can imagine, and human brains are not the be all and end all either...

So we might as well believe whatever the hell we want.

Faith is a valuable thing to many people for many reasons. People have as much faith in science as they do religion. People have faith in love. It's the same thing...

I spent most of my life seeking answers and one day I just thought "yeah but what exactly is this thing that's doing the seeking?" ... a brain is just a brain, a problem solving device. Just because it thinks it knows something does not make it fact. 'Proof' and 'facts' are a human invention to make us feel better. We have to believe it's possible to know stuff, it's our egos protecting us, but it's really quite liberating to think "fuck it"... we'll never actually know. We can only have a frame of reference arrived at by mutual consent, whether that's science, religion, philosophy...

The moral of the story: Life's too short.
( warmfuzzies Isn't here, Thu 19 Mar 2009, 19:07, Reply)

Pepsi or Coke?
Coke obviously. Pepsi fucking hurts when the ice cubes get stuck in your nostril.

I've long subscribed to the view that religion exists purely as a social control measure, dreamt up by those in charge. The problem is, it's becoming less effective these days at controlling people. Witness (in Britain at least) declining church attendances and the loss of sanctity of Sunday.

So, this is precisely the reason why those in power seek other methods of social control. Witness the 'war on terror', and the rafts of 'green' measures that'll make fuck all difference to the environment, but nicely keep everyone where the governments want them and their money flowing to the places where the governments want them flowing to.

It's just a very high-level view of course. If I started analysing it in depth I'd probably become The Goat or something.

As for the wider picture that religion tries to address, nobody's come up with a convincing explanation as far as I'm concerned. There IS some much bigger factor out there that we're unaware of, but as yet there's no way of us proving what it is.
( rubberduck should only be used after consulting with your GP, Thu 19 Mar 2009, 19:09, Reply)

Hmm. On the other hand
We all have to have quite a bit of faith in everything, pretty much every day, faith that what we can see, touch, taste ect is real, faith that the abstract concept of society will be enough to stop people from nicking your stuff and stabbing you (If you happen to subscribe to the Hobbe's "people are bloody awful" theory of human behavior that is)... I don't particuarly see religion, if followed correctly to be any more or less of a crutch than lack of faith, after all if you subscribe to the entire "afterlife" thing, you are going to have to exist forever knowing everything that you've done in this plane of existance, forever. That seems a bit intimidating to me, not realy a crutch to deal with reality. (By the way, not looking to pick a massive row or anything, just thinking out loud)
(Fredz A graveyard of hopes, a dump of ambition, Thu 19 Mar 2009, 19:14, Reply)

I know where you're coming from Fredz
The idea of spending an eternity either getting bummed by a pitchfork or playing Stairway to Heavan on a harp sounds wank no matter which side if the fence you land.

I prefer to have my 4 score and 10 and shuffle off into nothingness ..... My way, I only have to worry about necrophilliacs.
(SpunkyMcSpunkbubble Diddled your nubbin on, Thu 19 Mar 2009, 19:22, Reply)

Our lives on earth are short and full of pain and misery.
People need to believe there is more than this. Why would you want to go through life suffering unless there was a payoff at the end of it.



Actually I hope there is a hell because no doubt I'll end up there as a non-believer. Then I can laugh at the Muslim suicide bombers and say ha, where's your 100 virgins now you knob heads.
( girlinthehole, Thu 19 Mar 2009, 19:24, Reply)

My idea of everlasting life
is that if you can be a decent enough sort, be there for your friends and family, be nice to animals, help folk if they need it, counsel them in troubled times & be a fucking decent chap then you'll live on in the memories of those you leave behind.

"Remember Great Uncle Spunky? You don't? Fucking nice chap! Always game for a laugh, loved his wife dearly and could have a laugh at himself ....... We'll not see his sort again"

That's a legacy to leave. When folk think of you they remember the good you did and miss you - Not a slab of marble and an image of you floating on a cloud.
(SpunkyMcSpunkbubble Diddled your nubbin on, Thu 19 Mar 2009, 19:32, Reply)

The thought that in - at most - 60 years time
I will cease to exist for all eternity is, if I spend any time seriously thinking about it, FUCKING TERRIFYING. My experiences will come to an end. Nothing that happens from that point on will have me in it. There will not be a "from my perspective". I will be no more here than a blown-out match.

So I can quite understand where religious people are coming from. It's REALLY tempting to believe that the less-than-a-century we get is NOT all there will ever be.

It begins - and ends - with fear of death.
( The Light in Chains don't touch the Pope's boner, Thu 19 Mar 2009, 21:51, Reply)

Chains has a very good point about it starting with the fear of death.

I once heard it described as a bird flying through a dark night. Then it happens upon a building with 2 open windows. It flies in one window, through the bright light, and out the other. Faith is the light while fear is the darkness.

That is an image that has always stuck with me.
( flirting with badgers What? It sounded good at the time., Thu 19 Mar 2009, 22:57, Reply)

interesting stuff
thanks guys
( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Fri 20 Mar 2009, 8:52, Reply)

Fucking Terrifying?
No way! The thought that someday when I'm tired and worn out it will all end is rather comforting. Unless I could go on forever immortal in the prime of life and mental acuity there would be no point. And let's face it, as everyone on here knows your worst enemy is boredom. So to sum up: YAY FOR DEATH.
(porkylips looks better as the sun goes down., Fri 20 Mar 2009, 8:53, Reply)