LOUD SHOUTY CAPITAL TEXT OF AGREEMENT

( Bert Monkeysex is waiting for the mods to delete him, Fri 2 Oct 2009, 12:43, 2 replies, latest was 16 years ago)

FUCK YEAH!
*high five*
(Bazongaloid, Fri 2 Oct 2009, 12:49, Reply)

*shakes head slowly*

( Bert Monkeysex is waiting for the mods to delete him, Fri 2 Oct 2009, 12:50, Reply)

*grabs crotch*
yeah, well shake this!
(Bazongaloid, Fri 2 Oct 2009, 13:03, Reply)

AND FROM ME TOO
It's nothing to do with shitty sounding over-compressed audio files in comparison with the warm, natural tones of vinyl - or the non-availability in that shitty format of obscure but wonderful 45s.

NOTHING AT ALL, DO YOU HEAR???
( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Fri 2 Oct 2009, 12:50, Reply)

That's a such a bullshit argument
unless you listen to all your music in a harmonically perfect room with the highest quality equipment available to humankind. Even with my decent Wharfdale speakers in my living room I cannot tell the difference between a 128kbps mp3 a 320 kbps mp3 and a wav file. And I am sad enough to have actually tried it.

There is nothing "warmer" about vinyl, it's just nostalgia for the past. Sorry grandad, things have changed.
(Bazongaloid, Fri 2 Oct 2009, 13:01, Reply)

through decent headphones I think
I can tell the difference between an MP3 and a record. It may be all in my mind but there you go. Friends in the music business tell me that much commercial music is now recorded specifically to be heard in that format and is thus massively over-compressed. If they effectively sound the same (as you are saying here) why would that be the case?

One thing I can say with some certainty is that despite my ownership of a USB turntable, I'll never get my records digitised as it would take perhaps a year of full-time recording so to do. And there are beauties in my collection that Itunes or any of those benders will never have available.
( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Fri 2 Oct 2009, 13:15, Reply)

I tend to agree that there is a difference.
the mastering is very different for vinyl and CD as the reproduction is different
( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Fri 2 Oct 2009, 13:21, Reply)

Obviously there is a difference, you're comparing something made by a stylus physically moving against plastic
against something produced by decoding zeros and ones, but to say that vinyl is "warmer" is just personal preference.

Music made these days is over compressed because engineers are forced to make them as "loud" as possible, if you listen to Death Magnetic, it's actually not very well mixed as the sound has been made so "loud" it actually clips and sounds poor, especially compared to say The Black Album.

It's to do with louder music sounding better i.e. if you play someone two similar tracks, the one mixed louder usually gets voted as sounding better.

But that whole concept is nothing to do with digitising music.
(Bazongaloid, Fri 2 Oct 2009, 13:25, Reply)

hmm, fair point
I've been thinking recently that Ride the Lightning and Master of Puppets are kind of badly produced.

I heard that the mix of some of the Death Magnetic stuff on one of the guitar hero games is actually better than the album
( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Fri 2 Oct 2009, 13:28, Reply)

That is apperently the case
I don't think Ride the Lightning and Master of Puppets were badly produced, but they could have been better. ...And Justice for All is stunningly badly produced, which is a shame as it has great songs on it, but it sounds shit to listen to.
(Bazongaloid, Fri 2 Oct 2009, 13:32, Reply)

there's something not quite right with them
the mix is ok, but they sound a bit thin.

It is a shame about And Justice... it's almost as if there's no bass guitar on there at all. My bass playing mate had a theory that that was the reason for Jason Newstead always looking pissed off.
( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Fri 2 Oct 2009, 13:35, Reply)

I think that played a large part of the reason
the fact that he was in a band with three people who didn't like him was probably quite a big factor too!

Apparently Lars and James turned down the bass parts simply because they didn't like him very much.
(Bazongaloid, Fri 2 Oct 2009, 13:39, Reply)

they really are dickheads.
it was refreshing to watch the Maiden documentary and find that they are all diamond geezers.
( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Fri 2 Oct 2009, 13:41, Reply)

I really need to get that and watch it

(Bazongaloid, Fri 2 Oct 2009, 13:42, Reply)

it is thoroughly entertaining
funny, interesting, great music. everything you could want
( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Fri 2 Oct 2009, 13:49, Reply)

Just wanted to show some love for
good old fashioned records. I just bought some more today. The black crack.

Mp3 is fine & all that but anything lower than 250ish sounds shit on a big system imo. But then, a badly pressed record will also sound shit. Or a nice heavy piece of vinyl being played on a 40quid from argos turntable will sound pretty ropey too. It's not just the format but the equipment it's played on.
(MyFakeName, Fri 2 Oct 2009, 15:07, Reply)

Vipros is correct
Because of the inability to produce a lot of bass (the grooves would be too 'wobbly', there's a standard equalisation curve (the RIAA EQ response) which is applied to playback of vinyl. Because of surface imperfections, the signal to noise ratio of vinyl is pretty poor. CDs have a theoretical maximum S/N ratio of 96dB, which is pretty good, and they can reproduce the full audio spectrum without needing corrective EQ.

So technically, CDs are far better.

Subjectively, people say vinyl is warmer, and they prefer it. Fine. It's just like using a valve amplifier. Valves add subtle even-harmonic distortion to the sound, so it's a less accurate reproduction but can produce a sound more pleasing to the ear.

Personally, I prefer digital. Uncompressed is best, but 160kbps AAC is pretty good.

128kbps MP2 (as used in DAB) is however abysmal, and should be destroyed in a massive fire.
( K2k6 has a proper job these days, Fri 2 Oct 2009, 13:44, Reply)

Yeah, we know your opinion on DAB!

(Bazongaloid, Fri 2 Oct 2009, 13:47, Reply)

Have I perhaps
mentioned it in passing...?
( K2k6 has a proper job these days, Fri 2 Oct 2009, 13:51, Reply)

the valve amp thing is an interesting one
I've got a Fender valve amp, and a Marshall transistor one.

Distorted, My strat sounds best with the valve amp and my ibanez with the marshall, clean however and there is no comparison between the two. valves win, hands down
( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Fri 2 Oct 2009, 13:50, Reply)

Yes, but
even clean, the valve amplification will still add a small degree of distortion. And it's that which gives you the desirable sound.
( K2k6 has a proper job these days, Fri 2 Oct 2009, 13:52, Reply)

this is true
and desirable it is.

I was amazed at how loud it is. I've got a 15w valve amp, and I reckon it's as loud as my 100w transistor one.
( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Fri 2 Oct 2009, 13:59, Reply)

one word in that post explains everything....
'Wharfdale' - utter shit, boxy, boomy, tuneless junk. Do yourself a favour and bin the fuckers.
(Cancer Joy was short lived, Fri 2 Oct 2009, 13:32, Reply)

Hmmmmmm
to trust the judgement of my own ears, or an opinion of someone on the internet. What to do, what to do.
(Bazongaloid, Fri 2 Oct 2009, 13:34, Reply)

sarcasm or wharfedale, sarcasm or wharfedale
the sarcasm is definitely preferable...the reason you are trusting your own ears is possibly because you don't have something else to compare it to. I thought my old soundsystem was sweet and indeed, all who heard it were impressed.....then i ditched the shitty receiver amp and bought a NAD 316, very modest by all accounts, but fuck me, what a difference in sound, power, imaging, absolutely everything...then i upgraded my mission speakers with a pair of B&W 602's and then it all made sense...albums i had had for years suddenly burst with new life and vigour, power, control, smugness where all mine to behold.

my brother in law has wharfedales....utter shite, as i said before. sorry, but it is true
(Cancer Joy was short lived, Fri 2 Oct 2009, 15:02, Reply)

You can be as sorry as you like
but it simply isn't true. My Wharfdales sound fantastic. I have a pair of Fostex active Monitors which I use for recording and they also sound great.
(Bazongaloid, Fri 2 Oct 2009, 15:04, Reply)

fair enough,
wharfedales all round.

what is the model number, just out of curiosity?
(Cancer Joy was short lived, Fri 2 Oct 2009, 15:14, Reply)

I can't remember off the top of my head
I seem to recall them being Opus, but I can't find a picture of them on the internet to compare. They are about ten years old, and have a tweeter that actually protudes above the main cabinet and you can rotate it (a gimmick really, I've never rotated them)
(Bazongaloid, Fri 2 Oct 2009, 15:22, Reply)

rotate my tweeter
you filthy strumpet!
(Cancer Joy was short lived, Fri 2 Oct 2009, 15:24, Reply)

Haha
My old music collaborator helps manage the factory in China that makes them.
( Noeli overtheshoulderboulderholderthingstraplatchboobs, Fri 2 Oct 2009, 13:48, Reply)

I can easily hear the compression on most 128k mp3s
and occasionally on 192k as well. So ner.
( Noeli overtheshoulderboulderholderthingstraplatchboobs, Fri 2 Oct 2009, 13:35, Reply)

I would be willing to bet a whole pint of beer
that on a blind test, you couldn't.
(Bazongaloid, Fri 2 Oct 2009, 13:38, Reply)

It depends on the track
but generally if there's any tinny sounds like hats or cymbals I'll spot it in an instant. They always sound slightly bubbly and vary in tone. But yeah, that bet is on if I ever make it to a bash.

I went so far as to delete all the 128k mp3s I had - about eight gig - a couple of years ago because the compression bugged the fuck out of me.
( Noeli overtheshoulderboulderholderthingstraplatchboobs, Fri 2 Oct 2009, 13:44, Reply)

I always use v2 VBR
because I'm a snob, and I would always download a 320kbps, or even better FLAC, in preference to 128kbps, but the difference is so infinitesimally small that you can't hear it in most contexts you would normally listen to music.
(Bazongaloid, Fri 2 Oct 2009, 13:47, Reply)

I like the scratches and bumps on vinyl.
Every hiccup is a memory.
( girlinthehole, Fri 2 Oct 2009, 13:51, Reply)

I like scratching your bumps.
Every time you hiccuped imprinted on my memory.
(Bazongaloid, Fri 2 Oct 2009, 13:54, Reply)

and the large sleeves for LPs
meant some beautiful artwork that really complemented (and in some cases enhanced) the music therein was created. Even the old paper sleeves of vintage 45s are evocative - you're holding a historical artifact in your hand, and a shitty listing on a computer screen will never, ever be the same to me.
( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Fri 2 Oct 2009, 14:00, Reply)

this is why my mate and I wanted to get our project onto vinyl when we are done
so we have a great big record sleeve. It's prohibitively expensive though.
( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Fri 2 Oct 2009, 14:08, Reply)

You should see
(if you haven't already) the reissue packaging for the Pink Fairies' Never Neverland LP. Sumptuous doesn't come close - it's fucking gorgeous. (http://eil.com/shop/moreinfo.asp?catalogid=72828)

Inserts, printed plastic outer bag....the only record I have that comes close is the Glastonbury Fayre box set(http://eil.com/shop/moreinfo.asp?catalogid=43881)
( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Fri 2 Oct 2009, 14:16, Reply)

nice
the idea we are toying with now is making CDs of our stuff, and just sticking them in an LP size sleeve, for comedy effect. and also because the cover here will look great :-)
( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Fri 2 Oct 2009, 14:20, Reply)

I agree - that's the best compromise
It would be funny but also will enhance the impact of your product. Great design you have there. Kind of heraldic.
( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Fri 2 Oct 2009, 14:27, Reply)

that was the look we were going for
I was thinking it'd be good to have the CD as part of an LP-sized piece, so you could press out the middle and play it in a CD player
( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Fri 2 Oct 2009, 14:33, Reply)

Excellent idea
I have a Fuzztones DVD that's done up to look like a vinyl 7" - that's also quite a neat touch, I thought.
( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Fri 2 Oct 2009, 14:39, Reply)

yeah, I've seen something like that before
it is quite cool

we'd only need a few copies of the thing I'm on about, not sure if it's the sort of thing that would find commercial success. it's a bit of a self-indulgent sampler of different styles and a lot of odd synth noises.
( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Fri 2 Oct 2009, 14:40, Reply)

you can get a small number of test pressings done
for not too much, I think.

I'll buy one off you. There you go - you've made a sale already.
( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Fri 2 Oct 2009, 14:57, Reply)

it still costs quite a bit to get the master vinyl set up
unless we go down the CD route, in which case I'd probably just burn them myself. Had reasonable success with high quality audio stuff recently in preparation for the CD we are getting made.
( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Fri 2 Oct 2009, 14:58, Reply)

It's possible
I could get that done for nothing actually
( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Fri 2 Oct 2009, 15:04, Reply)

then I may come knocking on your door (so to speak)
once we've finished and if it seems worthy
( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Fri 2 Oct 2009, 15:05, Reply)

No problem

( Monty Boyce, My cheese game is strong, Fri 2 Oct 2009, 15:09, Reply)

It also depends on the compression algorithm
Some MP3 encoders are better than others.

Most of the modern ones produce 128kbps files which I find acceptable, if not perfect. Anything less than that and the compression becomes annoying.
( K2k6 has a proper job these days, Fri 2 Oct 2009, 13:59, Reply)