I was confused/amused
By the bit that said backhanding her was better than hitting her in the face with his elbow, and then something about how if he had hit her arm, he would have broken it. I presume this was back to talking about the baton rather than his elbow.
(PenguinOfDeath is Scottish, and most likely angry, Thu 1 Apr 2010, 12:51, 1 reply, 16 years ago)

He said backhanding her was better than elbowing her in the face
which is true, but surely just a shove backwards while he assessed the situation would have been even better?
(Bazongaloid, Thu 1 Apr 2010, 12:52, Reply)

The worst thing is, this is NOTHING compared to some police-inflicted injuries I've seen
It's just that the people on the receiving end are usually criminals who either don't want any more 'fuss' or feel it's pointless to complain as they wouldn't be believed.

Just because somebody has broken the law by being a public nuisance or a shoplifter or whatever, it doesn't justify what is, in effect, corporal punishment.
( Roota zweeeeeoooooowm, Thu 1 Apr 2010, 12:56, Reply)

But Roota, you're missing the point, she could have had a weapon.
A WEAPON! Do you see? It could have been a WEAPON. And then where would we be? eh? WHERE WOULD WE BE THEN ROOTA?
(Bazongaloid, Thu 1 Apr 2010, 12:58, Reply)

I'm SHIT-SCARED of Tropicana
Especially the one 'with bits'.
( Roota zweeeeeoooooowm, Thu 1 Apr 2010, 12:59, Reply)

to be fair
a lot of riot / crowd control policing nowadays can directly be linked to this fucking awful occurence

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Keith_Blakelock
(Halfy By light alone, Thu 1 Apr 2010, 12:59, Reply)

facking 'ell
I was unaware of that
( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Thu 1 Apr 2010, 13:02, Reply)

yep
he tends to get forgotten about when people complain about modern day policing tactics regarding riots and crowd control
(Halfy By light alone, Thu 1 Apr 2010, 13:05, Reply)

Yeah, if he hadn't bitchslapped that woman he might have ended up macheted to death
By a load of stinking hippies with fuck all else better to do
( Roota zweeeeeoooooowm, Thu 1 Apr 2010, 13:07, Reply)

hehe
no because it was a "never again" scenario, from there and the other riots in London and the miners strikes, they basically over police and try and clamp down on any potential flare ups nowadays.

Still, compared to a whole lot of police forces around the world a swift smack in the leg with a baton is a pittance
(Halfy By light alone, Thu 1 Apr 2010, 13:12, Reply)

Well that makes it alright then
The police were out of order during the miners strike as well.
Police brutality was rife in the 80s. SO just as the police have 'long memories', maybe PC Blakelock was an innocent victim of people with long memories.
( Roota zweeeeeoooooowm, Thu 1 Apr 2010, 13:15, Reply)

Oh that's alright then
as long the abuses of our rights to protest are the least of all the abuses in the world, then it's perfectly acceptable.
(Bazongaloid, Thu 1 Apr 2010, 13:17, Reply)

oh ffs
pretty much yes, bearing in mind hundreds or thousands of innocent people fill up NHS A&E wards every weekend because fucking dumb twats think its funny to glass / stab / punch / kick the shit out of people for no better reason than "looking at them funny" having a woman screaming abuse and using threatening behaviour in an already tense and potential powderkeg environmant was dealt with, not brutally or over violently, reasonable force was used. this woman and a diddums bruise screams daily mail look what labour have done, this middle class white woman is being oppressed by the evil scum nazi racist met police.

there will always be protestors that use "peaceful law abiding protest" as an excuse to fuck shit up and there will be the very very occasional police officer that uses excessive force but the monstrous over-reaction to it is ridiculous.

the next time a protest kicks off into a full blown riot because the police are terrified of being able to use force to control the situation everyone will scream and shout and say "why was this allowed to happen, the police are a shambles" so they are in a no win position from a large minority of the media no matter how they react or operate to any given crowd control operation so just give it a rest.

for every person who says "I have a right to peaceful protest" someone else will turn around and complain that that protest is a "breach of the peace"
(Halfy By light alone, Thu 1 Apr 2010, 13:38, Reply)

No, I won't "give it a rest"
Your logic is like telling people people living in shit bits of the UK to stop moaning as they've got it worse in rural Bangladesh. It has no relevance at all.

The police were roundly criticised for their actions in policing the protests at the G20, and yet despite basically admitting they got it wrong and they will change, nobody has actually been rebuked for anything they have done.

I'm coming back to the Ian Tomlinson fact again, but it is very important. A man, who had nothing to do with the protests, is dead because of a policeman going gung ho and lashing out for no reason, and rather than try and restore confidence in a system by showing that, when mistakes are made, the police will admit it and deal with the problem in a reasonable manner, they have done nothing at all and the CPS appears powerless to act.

And that is what is disgraceful about this situation.
(Bazongaloid, Thu 1 Apr 2010, 13:48, Reply)

You're right Al
It is wrong that the police are not held to account for individual actions. They are no longer public servants when they bash your head in, and their colleages should see to it that the reputation of the whole is maintained, not the reputation of the one.
( Bartleby A dead man on vacation, Thu 1 Apr 2010, 13:55, Reply)

I remember that well.
Those were very troubled times, and we are well out of them now.
( Bartleby A dead man on vacation, Thu 1 Apr 2010, 13:05, Reply)

hell yes
But the police tend to have long memories, and take death in service very very seriously sometimes they go too far the other way, but in the same way an ordinary protester shouldn't have to die in a protest due to over-reaction, neither should a police office be basically slaughtered on the spot for simply trying to keep the peace
(Halfy By light alone, Thu 1 Apr 2010, 13:09, Reply)

I think everyone takes death pretty seriously
the death of a protester, such as Blair Peach, is going pretty far too, not to mention the death of someone who wasn't even a protester, that being Ian Tomlinson.

I think you're wrong if you're suggesting that the riot police these days use that case as the reason why they act the way they do, they act the way they do because they can get away with it as they know they will never be disciplined no matter what they do, and their commanders are equally complicit.
(Bazongaloid, Thu 1 Apr 2010, 13:14, Reply)

All correct,
the problems occur when the systems break down.

Your average plod doing his duty, unthreatend, will not overreact, and the average Joe on the street is happy with a bobby walking the beat.
( Bartleby A dead man on vacation, Thu 1 Apr 2010, 13:15, Reply)

That's horrific

( Naked Ape call me Caitlyn, Thu 1 Apr 2010, 13:09, Reply)

I read a police manual
from a friend who joined the force, and i'm sure in there was a thing relating to this, and they advise a slap or pinning and to never ever shove someone unless in a full on baton charge, because it is more provoking and will garner an immediate response of aggression, whereas a slap / hold is used more to shock or temporarily stun someone due to the surprise element of it.

Obviously in a huge crowd situation pinning is unlikely unless the person can be removed and isolated, which could inflame the crowd more than a short sharp shock.

You should sign up to be the crowd in the riot training they do for the Met and regional forces
(Halfy By light alone, Thu 1 Apr 2010, 12:58, Reply)