Cyclist haters
Some car drivers seem to have a blind spot about the fact that if there are more cyclists on the road then there are less cars and therefore less traffic. Using pedestrian crossings and turning left at junctions are some of the perks of being a cyclist that get the less die hard clarkson fans out of their cars. No one goes out on their bike to get killed, and the only way a bike can kill a car driver is if you take them out the car and beat them with it (something I've been tempted to do after having someone open their door into the bike lane, leaving me with a beautiful back edge of door shaped scar snaking up my chest). If you have to run all these risks and still sit in traffic for the same amount of time (only while being colder and wetter) then people will never get out of their cars. I know people think cyclists are smug and recklessly endanger the lives of other road users, and to be fair there are some who do take daft risks. But just remember that it is their choice if they want to take those risks and you can't be hurt by them. Just don't swerve if you know the highway code has you in the right. And check your fucking blind spots.
(Pete_G, Wed 4 Aug 2010, 9:42, 3 replies)

And what about the threat cyclists pose to pedestrians?
A 10-stone man travelling at 20mph is going to do serious damage anyone foolish enough to cross a pedestrian crossing when he decides not to stop because there was a car back there who didn't give him enough room.
( Je suis un vagabond is an unfunny, up your own arse middle class knob, Wed 4 Aug 2010, 9:50, closed)

I would run a red light at a crossroads when there are no pedestrians crossing on the green man and a green man on the road crossing the one I'm on means there is no traffic. Or I'd turn left under those circumstances, again if there are no pedestrians. I think London is probably different because there is a bit of a "cycle couriers are cool" culture where people do take risks, but in Newcastle I know a number of people who've hit pedestrians due to them stepping into the cycle lane without looking due to being on the phone etc, and in every circumstance the pedestrian has admitted responsibility. I would LOVE the Dutch system (seperate cycle lanes) to be introduced over here, but it's not happening any time soon.

I suggest you try cycling to work one day to get a view from the other side (you might also find you enjoy it).
(Pete_G, Wed 4 Aug 2010, 10:00, closed)

came off as a smug cyclist there, sorry.
(Pete_G, Wed 4 Aug 2010, 10:03, closed)

I cycled to work in London for 4 years (12 miles each way for 18 months, 8 miles each way for 30)
I obeyed the law throughout, and if I felt threatened by traffic, I would get off and walk for a bit.

There is no problem other than self-importance and arrogance in the cycling community.
( Je suis un vagabond is an unfunny, up your own arse middle class knob, Wed 4 Aug 2010, 10:04, closed)

^ this
I used to cycle through Archway junction at rush hour every day. Yet I always stopped at red lights and pedestrian crossings because, well, IT'S THE FUCKING LAW. It's not that difficult to understand.
( emvee cruor deo cruoris, Wed 4 Aug 2010, 10:11, closed)

^^ this
Can't agree more.
(Bicycle Repairman "you're also a bit of a wanker", Wed 4 Aug 2010, 10:15, closed)

When the system is set up so that cycling is as safe as driving a car (ie Holland) I think you'll see cyclists behaving better. I should stress again that I personally only jump red lights if there's no one crossing. And on the subject of it being the fucking law... actually lets not get started about car drivers whingeing about speed cameras.
(Pete_G, Wed 4 Aug 2010, 10:33, closed)

I concur about speed cameras.
You are still wrong to jump red lights at any point, though - people crossing or no - just as it's not right to kill people with no dependents, steal stuff from the rich, or abuse people because they're poor.
( Je suis un vagabond is an unfunny, up your own arse middle class knob, Wed 4 Aug 2010, 10:36, closed)

sure thing jesus

(augsav forgot about B3ta, Wed 4 Aug 2010, 10:48, closed)

Oh you naughty, rebellious scamp, you!

( Je suis un vagabond is an unfunny, up your own arse middle class knob, Wed 4 Aug 2010, 10:58, closed)

*runs away giggling*
(augsav forgot about B3ta, Wed 4 Aug 2010, 11:00, closed)

ANYONE jumping red lights
is committing an offence. Big deal, not a problem you might think. We all stretch the yellows and we all do 32 on that long straight bit near work.

BUT red lights are there to establish a safe traffic flow. If you follow the system, you CANNOT crash or hurt anyone (or if you do, it's the fault of the council who set up the timing). Not just "it lowers the risk" like speed cameras are supposed to do. You cannot crash. Which means that blind people can cross the road at the beeps with no risk. Drivers can set off on a green light and know that no-one's going to smack into the side of them coming out of the arm of the junction.

Jumping red lights is so, so much more dangerous than speeding that it's horrifying that you two-wheeled types are so keen on it.

Saying that, watching two red-light jumping cyclists run into one another was the funniest thing I've ever seen.
( uberdeity Wondered why Owen Lars knew of the term "hell" on, Wed 4 Aug 2010, 14:09, closed)

^ I like your views and wish to subscribe to your newsletter

( emvee cruor deo cruoris, Thu 5 Aug 2010, 9:24, closed)

I was hit by a cyclist in this manner.
I foolishly stepped out on to a one-way street after only checking the direction the traffic should have been coming from, only to feel a sharp pain in the back of the head and stagger forward a bit. I looked around to see what it was and saw a cyclist landing about twenty yards farther down the road. He was bigger than me (I'm just over ten stones) and moving faster, so I have little notion as to why he suffered more from the collision than I did. Perhaps I'm just a very grounded person.
(ThomsonsPier consumes, Wed 4 Aug 2010, 11:26, closed)

SPANG

( Je suis un vagabond is an unfunny, up your own arse middle class knob, Wed 4 Aug 2010, 11:51, closed)

I'm a pedestrian, mostly
I drive a car less than I ride a bike (and I do ride a bike, though not often on the roads). And as a pedestrian, I'd rather share the roads with car drivers than cyclists, who are a largely unrepentant menace. I'm not looking to "get people out of their cars" or save the bloody environment, I just want to be able to get to work without being knocked over by some holier-than-thou tosser who thinks red lights don't apply to them.
( emvee cruor deo cruoris, Wed 4 Aug 2010, 9:51, closed)

Agreed.
I am all for environmentally friendly forms of transport, but cyclists seem a law unto themselves.
I got knocked into a hedge by a bike monkey last week, who had hopped up onto the path and was coming around a corner full tilt as I was walking the other way. He was unsighted as there is a garden with a tall hedge next to the path, and I was unsighted because I am virtually blind and get about using a long cane (white stick). I now have a bruise on my stomach and a ripped handbag (which luckily took the force of his handlebars).
The people walking behind me picked me up and berated the twat in no uncertain terms (I was too winded), who, when they wouldn't let him continue merrily on his way on the pavement by blocking his path (there were four of them and the path has a railing on the other side as it is next to a main road), rammed them with his bike and sailed off without so much as an apology to me.
It's not the first time something like this has happened to me. Fucking menaces.
(womanwhocanonlylivewithdogs, Wed 4 Aug 2010, 10:35, closed)

Womanwhocanonlylivewithdogs
makes a good point. It's alright saying you should look before crossing on a green man, but what about the blind and partially sighted? They have to rely on the fact that when the crossing beeps it *should* be safe to cross. Modern bikes are almost silent nowadays, good luck hearing one before it's almost on top of you.
(Petite chien is going to do science to it, Wed 4 Aug 2010, 11:07, closed)

I'm talking about pedestrians who step into the road without looking. No argument from me that crossing pedestrian crossings with people even in the vicinity and riding on the pavement is out of order. Pavement is for pedestrians, roads are for cars and ideally proper seperate cycle paths are for cyclists.
(Pete_G, Wed 4 Aug 2010, 11:25, closed)

Stepping into the road without looking is not a crime
Jumping a red light on a bicycle is.
( emvee cruor deo cruoris, Wed 4 Aug 2010, 11:40, closed)

Stepping into the road on a green man, pedestrians should not HAVE to look.
Likewise - whatabout the blind?
( Je suis un vagabond is an unfunny, up your own arse middle class knob, Wed 4 Aug 2010, 11:45, closed)

I think...
...what Pete_G is trying to say is that pedestrians who step out into an ordinary stretch of road without looking are a danger to themselves and other road users. Pedestrians stepping out into the road at a designated crossing should absolutely not have to look.

I cycle 7 miles each way to work and back every day and I obey the red lights and so on, up until the point that my light is just about to turn green and I get a bit of a jump on the traffic behind me.

What seems incredibly ridiculous is that other cyclists will abuse me for obeying the law...

Edit: I've just read a reply at the bottom of the page about stopatred.org and pledged to not ride through red lights... Look at me! I'm a virtuous cyclist!
(Sir Itchalot has a very self-referential signature, Wed 4 Aug 2010, 12:09, closed)

Good on you
we need more like you
( emvee cruor deo cruoris, Wed 4 Aug 2010, 12:22, closed)

shrill histrionics aside
the numbers would tend to suggest that the actual danger posed by cyclists is hugely at odds with the perceived danger. Cars users kill and maim far more, doing equally stupid things, yet people who drive never seem to generalise this to 'all drivers are cunts'.
( Happy Phantom has been to Hastings, Brighton, and Eastbourne too, Wed 4 Aug 2010, 10:53, closed)

I understand flying is still the safest form of transport, but it doesn't stop a lot of people being afraid of it.
Likewise, two rings don't make runt and all that.

You don't, however, get many car drivers who will try to claim that they drive a car for the benefit of anyone other than themselves, or try to justify breaking the law, with the possible exception of the wife's waters breaking/speeding story.
( Je suis un vagabond is an unfunny, up your own arse middle class knob, Wed 4 Aug 2010, 10:56, closed)

Actually
Flying is only the safest form of travel if you calculate by distance travelled.
If you calculate by the number of journeys vs the amount of accidents, then train travel is the safest.





As you were
(EvilMeister, Wed 4 Aug 2010, 14:04, closed)

from personal experience
I've never been knocked down by a car, but I've been knocked down by unrepentant cyclists twice, despite being on crossings at the time. Living in a city I don't have much to fear from motorists because they really don't have the space to get up any speed but cyclists remain a daily hazard.
( emvee cruor deo cruoris, Wed 4 Aug 2010, 11:07, closed)

Selfish dicks will remain thus in any mode of transport. If a cyclist knocks you down at a crossing, I suspect they'd have committed an arrrestable offence - in which case, you'd be perfectly within your rights to detain them. A 700 quid fine and whatever they have to give you in personal injury compo might go some way towards improving their manners.

Certainly wouldn't hurt to have mandatory bike number plates, provided they don't actually cost any more than the materials warrant. Might even reduce bike theft, if it matched a number stamped on the frame, so a win all round...
( Happy Phantom has been to Hastings, Brighton, and Eastbourne too, Wed 4 Aug 2010, 11:21, closed)

^What she said^

( Je suis un vagabond is an unfunny, up your own arse middle class knob, Wed 4 Aug 2010, 11:27, closed)

I'm all for number plates, registration etc.
Or even just some proper organisation - as I said above, I have no problems with Amsterdam which has proper cycle lanes, because I know that cyclists there will stop at crossings and obey the rules laid out for them. It's just my experience of cyclists in London that have dimmed my view of them because as Vagabond says above, they really do seem to think they should be above the law.
( emvee cruor deo cruoris, Wed 4 Aug 2010, 11:28, closed)

From a totally biased bike commuter
I agree with Pete G's brave stance against the judgemental bike haters. Yes, there are some twats on bikes. Yes, they should be punished if they do something overtly dangerous. But it all comes down to common sense really and surely you'd have to admit that a cyclist turning left at a red light when there are no pedestrians crossing isn't exactly a hanging offence is it, given that no one is inconvenienced? There is of course the "but where do you draw the line?" argument, rules is rules etc. but this new found inflexibility and nanny like attitude is for me one of the most irritating and saddening developments in the UK at the moment. Police or cyclist police should be given the power to use their judgement as to whether a cyclist has been acting recklessly or not and act accordingly. and if bikes scare you that much, you'd probably be safer inside with a tinfoil hat on and a cup of soothing tea. Just an idea.
(impossibly witty twat No, YOUR Mum etc etc, Wed 4 Aug 2010, 13:06, closed)

As both a cycle and pedestrian commuter in the city
I've seen arrogance from all sides - pedestrians with a herd mentality who blindly step out in front of a cycle going through a green light through to cyclists passing through a red light at speed and barely avoiding contact with pedestrians.

Frankly, it would be a whole lot safer if more cyclists respected the traffic signals.
(Bicycle Repairman "you're also a bit of a wanker", Wed 4 Aug 2010, 13:24, closed)

"Judgemental bike haters"
Both Vagabond and myself have admitted to being cycle commuters at some point in our lives; I've just bought a new bike in fact.

What we're complaining about is the automatic assumption that cyclists should be able to break the law with impunity just because that law inconveniences them a little bit. I'd like to ignore laws that inconvenience me as well, but I don't have the self-assured moral high ground of a cyclist to do that from.
( emvee cruor deo cruoris, Wed 4 Aug 2010, 14:57, closed)