And Colbert makes Goebbels seem like an amateur.
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gunmetal drove slowly in the passing lane on, Tue 9 Dec 2014, 16:57,
Reply)
wow, that's a new high for you
comparing a popular comedy central show to nazi propaganda
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HappyToast Groat froth, Tue 9 Dec 2014, 17:22,
Reply)
You don't consider this propaganda?
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gunmetal drove slowly in the passing lane on, Tue 9 Dec 2014, 17:24,
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Propaganda, sure
But it's a bit different to the Nazi healthcare system.
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Extinct Jesus Dossier "...I think it counteracts Hitler's magic...", Tue 9 Dec 2014, 17:26,
Reply)
Indeed. If the plan worked and wasn't just a cash transfer to donors, they wouldn't need this.
The national marketing campaign to promote Ocare was $700 Million a year ago, and who knows how much more if you factor in government workers and "popular" TV shows.
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gunmetal drove slowly in the passing lane on, Tue 9 Dec 2014, 17:30,
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I think you missed the point I was making
and carried on with your original rant assuming I'd give a fuck.
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Extinct Jesus Dossier "...I think it counteracts Hitler's magic...", Tue 9 Dec 2014, 17:59,
Reply)
I do like you.
Have an internet click.
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Tab Hunter Make this useless process end and so, begin again, Tue 9 Dec 2014, 18:23,
Reply)
Not you, nutjob.
You get an anti-click.
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Tab Hunter Make this useless process end and so, begin again, Tue 9 Dec 2014, 19:09,
Reply)
OK
Compare it to the cost of too many working Americans not getting healthcare, or spending a large part of their earnings getting one.
And not on the"real economy".
Ah, yes, it will "trickle down" from the back of the healthcare oligarchs Cayman's registered mega yacht.
And it's Easter in Peru. Every day.
Ocare, or any project, in any country, is never going to be perfect.
There's going to be good side and bad sides.
But in this case, it seems the good far outweighs the bad.
I'm always amazed at how the average 'Murican shakes a bible in my face belittling me for not "getting" the word, amen.
Then refuses to apply said teachings (Jesus was a Socialist) and buys a gun (You shall kill).
You are entertaining, but soooo superficial.
(, Tue 9 Dec 2014, 18:17, Reply)
How did you link Jesus into all this? And do you mean the big guy or all the latinos named Jesus?
Didn't Jesus say he came not to bring peace, but a sword? And there was little socialism in his teachings, in fact he fought against those in power who claimed to be for the all, much like the Politburo of later days.
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gunmetal drove slowly in the passing lane on, Tue 9 Dec 2014, 18:22,
Reply)
Politburo
Price Waterhouse Cooper or Comcast
Same shit, different marketing.
(And have you EVER been to a real Socialist country to be able to compare that to a "socialist" one?
I have, there's a big fucking difference.)
(, Tue 9 Dec 2014, 18:30, Reply)
If David Cameron spent $700 Million promoting a law that the majority of the country opposed, then hit all the TV shows trying to promote it, are you saying you wouldn't find that objectionable?
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gunmetal drove slowly in the passing lane on, Tue 9 Dec 2014, 17:54,
Reply)
You're not talking about a war or a ridiculous white elephant though, you're talking about a way of securing better healthcare for so many without it in your country
What strikes me as baffling is that you can't see it as that. More than baffling, it's quite frightening.
When we had our last major healthcare reform in, er, 1945, the difference was the majority of the nation, selflessly, realised it was the right thing to do. And it's been for the greater good ever since. For some reason your country views everything within these bizarre state vs individual lenses. To compare Colbert to Goebbels is... wow... just incredible
www.nhshistory.net/shorthistory.htm
(, Tue 9 Dec 2014, 18:04, Reply)
But what you can't see is that, although sold as an NHS style of healthcare, from the beginning, it was never intended as such.
It has exempted large insurers such as UHG and caused people with health plans they liked to see their premiums doubled. The $2,500 savings and "you can keep your own doctor" claims have long been proven as dishonest from the beginning.
After WWII, the institutions that previously ran your healthcare, the religious ones, had been bombed into oblivion, so the UK and Europe as a whole had no other choice. That is very different from the US post WWII.
Had this health overhaul 1) insured all those it promised to 2) stayed reasonably close to what they claimed it would cost 3) did not give exemptions to powerful lobbyists, and 4) didn't have a myriad of pork not related to healthcare, perhaps people would have been happier. Even democrats think this is a boondoggle.
I understand that you don't understand how people in my country think about this, but then again, when's the last time you wanted citizens of another country to influence where your taxes go? Greece? Turkey?
Ocare simply does not do what it says on the tin, no matter how many TV shows and how much mmoney is used to promote it.
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gunmetal drove slowly in the passing lane on, Tue 9 Dec 2014, 18:19,
Reply)
It's VERY difficult for people on this side of the Atlantic
who've grown up with a fair, most of the time efficient and compassionate universal healthcare system - that works, by the way - to understand exactly what your problem with anything close to universal healthcare is, beyond simple selfishness.
You make out that the NHS was founded because there was no other choice? That's exactly the problem with your point of view. If I've studied my history correctly, I don't think Nye Bevan ever fought tooth and nail because of economics - he wanted a country where things like high infant mortality were no more. To make healthcare free to anyone, everyone, at the point of use.
I can't understand your point of view because it makes absolutely no effort to consider others. That's where we fundamentally differ.
I find it shocking, in fact.
(, Tue 9 Dec 2014, 18:32, Reply)
Jonofthesouth, I'll name my fisrt born after you
Oh wait, she already has a name.
Have a click instead.
(, Tue 9 Dec 2014, 18:37, Reply)
Infant mortality rates are statistically the same in the UK and the US
And how easy to claim "you don't care" "you're selfish" when the US has a great healthcare system already. People were happy with the system. Under law, no person could be turned away from emergency services and the indigent get treated in the same hospitals as oil sheikhs.
But it's always easier to be generous with other people's money.
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gunmetal drove slowly in the passing lane on, Tue 9 Dec 2014, 19:22,
Reply)
1. Only some people were happy with the system
2. Healthcare does not start at emergency care
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A Rory Borealis here under duress, Tue 9 Dec 2014, 19:57,
Reply)
"the indigent get treated in the same hospitals as oil sheikhs" "it's always easier to be generous with other people's money"
With each rebuttal you lay on, the more ugly your sense of morality comes across.
For you, healthcare is about worth. It has to be earned. Fortunately we've transcended that pettiness on this side of the Atlantic.
I find your attitude, for a first world citizen, genuinely shocking.
(, Tue 9 Dec 2014, 20:03, Reply)
You only make an emotional point about what a monster you think I am and insist that your morality is superior to my morality.
That is dangerous.
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gunmetal drove slowly in the passing lane on, Tue 9 Dec 2014, 20:10,
Reply)
Insist that my morality is superior?
Christ. It's not even a battle.
My "morality" doesn't mind contributing fairly to a pot that makes healthcare available for anyone should they need it. Your morality says people should pay for themselves and the people who inevitably can't afford to pay because of the top to bottom narrowness of that kind of system should suffer the consequences. That's not even getting to the hypocrisy of the gun problem your country's hideous "Constitution" has created.
It's not about superior/inferior - one is compassionate and morally correct the other is incredibly selfish and not in line with how a first world country should function. I can't convince you to change your idea of morality, but I can expose it for the heartless wasteland it purports.
(, Tue 9 Dec 2014, 20:27, Reply)
It's not a battle - if that's all you view this as, then you will continue to insult and cajole without ever reading my responses.
Your morality seems like the people who see a poor person and think "I don't want to touch the smelly rat, but I feel slightly guilty, so everyone should be forced by the police power to pitch in to assuage my guilt" Sometimes what a person needs isn't a handout, it's an arm around.
As to the Constitution, it is the law of the land, created to protect from government tyranny, not create a welfare state. The US has spent $20 Trillion fighting the war on poverty and there are more poor than ever. How is it working where you are? Are there poor? Is there crime? Are there no complaints about your health system?
You seem so intolerant of other people's views I'm surprised you can abide the vast religious, social and racial palate found today in most countries. Believe it or not, there are people who think differently from you; who help the poor through many charitable and religious entities because government tends to muck it up very badly.
Step outside your little world. It's a wonderful place.
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gunmetal drove slowly in the passing lane on, Tue 9 Dec 2014, 21:08,
Reply)
You are absolutely insane and I fear for your country's prolonged demise.
But I have enjoyed these sparring matches.
(, Tue 9 Dec 2014, 21:13, Reply)
We are no UK, for certain.
Peace, love and understanding.
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gunmetal drove slowly in the passing lane on, Tue 9 Dec 2014, 21:33,
Reply)
One way you could reduce the cost of universal healthcare in the USA
is to give up your guns. Hell, maybe you could sell them to help pay for it.
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A Rory Borealis here under duress, Tue 9 Dec 2014, 19:11,
Reply)
The man who did it is flawed
(as in not a white army deserter with a coke and margarita habit) so it's bad.
For example, I'm French, De Gaulle is my fave politician ever. But he was a flawed character:
- He did some spectacular stuff during 1940, but did not coordinate with others or put the right people to take care of his supply chain.
- His nit picking with the English lost precious time that could have been used turning French North Africa against the Axis sooner.
- Leaving NATO was stupid.
- etc.
But what he did right far outweighs this.
(, Tue 9 Dec 2014, 18:28, Reply)
Smooth.
Though I feel the audience missed an opportunity by not all going "ERRRRM...?" in unison.
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Extinct Jesus Dossier "...I think it counteracts Hitler's magic...", Tue 9 Dec 2014, 17:19,
Reply)