It affects about a quarter of pregnancies and between a third and a half of couples
so the chances are that you are spoiling for a fight with somebody who has also experienced miscarriage. Asking if somebody has children is a perfectly normal, arguably even clichéd, way to start up a conversation. If you genuinely don't want a conversation then maybe consider staying in the house or wearing a burkha. Otherwise you are simply being obnoxious.

But good luck with the IVF. Try not to be a horribly passive aggressive parent.
( Dr. Shambolic je suis charlie, Mon 16 May 2011, 8:57, 4 replies)

Spoiling for a fight
If this had been written by someone else, I would have taken it a bit more seriously (for b3ta) but seeing as its the resident troll who probably should have been a miscarriage, I expect nothing more.
Obnoxious? Pot/kettle. Fuck off back to /talk? Is that how it goes?
(maggotriddendirtbox fast, feral and sharp as a tack since, Mon 16 May 2011, 9:20, closed)

It was a perfectly serious response.

( Dr. Shambolic je suis charlie, Mon 16 May 2011, 15:01, closed)

sorry. I couldn't tell
Thanks for your well-meaning advice.
In which case, if we are being serious, is it appropriate to ask how long ago and how many have you and your Mrs been through, and if you have children now? I'm not going to chuck gender-generalisations around, but I do know that I and a lot of other women who have been through this grieved very differently (not saying less) than our blokes. But I do accept that some people this doesn't touch as much as us and if you are one of them, so be it. Also wonder if you did have live kids, if that changed how you viewed your loss. Also sorry this has happened to you/your Mrs too
(maggotriddendirtbox fast, feral and sharp as a tack since, Tue 17 May 2011, 6:27, closed)

How am I supposed to react to a stranger feeling sorry for me about something we've both acknowledged is so common that it has to be considered normal?
This is something you should be talking to friends and family about. And maybe to a midwife or other health professional. It's not something to throw into a pub conversation as a deliberate 'conversation killer' or to start discussing with complete strangers on a website dedicated to stupid pictures and games involving pubic hair and swearing.
( Dr. Shambolic je suis charlie, Tue 17 May 2011, 8:01, closed)

I'm "not feeling sorry for you" at all
I was just trying to bridge something, I don't know what. Never mind.
Have talked to friends and family and health professionals at the relevant times, I don't see how that is even relevant to this. I accept what is happening and thought I was open enough to talk about this with 'strangers' without getting upset, blah blah blah. And I have been. Must work on my stiff British upper lip though.

I've obviously overstepped the boundary of appropriate topics for here with my mentalness. Back to pubic hair and swearing then.
(maggotriddendirtbox fast, feral and sharp as a tack since, Tue 17 May 2011, 8:30, closed)

Well you said "sorry this happened" ... not sure how else to interpret that.
There aren't any real boundaries of appropriateness on here (more's the pity in some cases) but it goes both ways. If you're going to post personal things then you're going to have to expect disagreement or downright unwelcome responses. Instantly labelling disagreement as "trolling" is just weak. Although seemingly par for the course on qotw.
( Dr. Shambolic je suis charlie, Tue 17 May 2011, 10:01, closed)

Dunno, was just acknowledging that at one time it might have been a bit shitty
for you, despite it not turning you into an obnoxious anti-social fucking mental. I definitely don't feel sorry for you.

Disagreement? I guess, like I keep saying, its in the delivery. How something is said?

Can't imagine where I got the idea you might be trolling
(maggotriddendirtbox fast, feral and sharp as a tack since, Thu 19 May 2011, 11:03, closed)

Shockter, you started well with your "facts" (I don't dispute them but peer evaluations please)
after that you yet again turned into a shit-stirring cnut. Unless you actually have something to say related to this thread then try not to be a horribly passive aggressive, obnoxious person.
(Misery McUglywife an attention seeking sociopathic fuckstain., Mon 16 May 2011, 9:20, closed)

To be fair...
I'm kinda with Shambolic on this one (*shock horror*). I think you can reasonably expect to ask a question such as "do you have any kids?" without expecting someone to return with "I had 3 but they died and are buried in the garden".

I am sorry for your loss and all that, but if every time someone asked an innocuous question they got a 100% honest response would make life a bit awkward for everyone.

"Alright Dave, how are you?"

"My fucking dog died, my Nan's in hospital and my girlfriend says I'm shit in bed. ALRIGHT?!?!?!?"

Just saying like...

EDIT: Yes, I am aware that response is saved for when you're feeling less charitable, but I still think even saying we had 3 miscarriages and are waiting on IVF is more than someone could reasonably expect unless a close friend.
(Galahad is out of his gourd on yellow bentines, Mon 16 May 2011, 9:52, closed)

Ok scenario as close as I can think of it
Your mum has 2 kids, yourself (who is capable of attachment and feelings) and your sister. You both get on really well (ie no family feuds) but your sister unexpectedly died 18 months ago.
Every week people, in the normal course of conversation with strangers, look at you, make a judgment on your appearance or age, and ask you 'do you have any sisters?'
Do you say no, and let that person think you've grown up an only child, denying the existence of a person who had an impact on your life and the person you are now, or do you say 'yes', but allude to the fact that she is no longer here? (I know, depends how you are on the day and who the asking person is)

No right answers I guess, each to their own.
This is my own.
People look at me, in my mid-thirties, and make an assumption. If there is not a fucktrophy hanging off my tit, then no, I do not have kids. And I don't know the exact WHO stats for infertility (1 in 8 US couples) and much as I hate to concur with the Shamblyone, one in 4 (although according to my well-informed source, more likely to be 1 in 2 pregnancies will miscarry (although that is not 'official' stats, just from someone whose day-to-day dealings are on miscarriage). Its common but people often don't think and just blunder in.

I wouldn't swear in the delivery with a stranger. And it wouldn't come across as aggressive as your example. I reckon honesty is possible in most scenarios but like I said, its in the delivery. That said, I don't often get asked to go clothes-shopping with girls as I WILL say if something looks hideous
(maggotriddendirtbox fast, feral and sharp as a tack since, Mon 16 May 2011, 11:28, closed)

Sorry for all the sadbits, you must have had a lot of tough times.

One question though - do you think that you'll feel the same way about the question if the IVF works out and you have kids?
( lucosade is counting down the minutes until, Mon 16 May 2011, 12:13, closed)

good question, I'm not sure
I have heard of people who do count the first losses as their kids and that question makes them also wonder what to reply with.
(maggotriddendirtbox fast, feral and sharp as a tack since, Tue 17 May 2011, 6:29, closed)

Very true!

I hope taht IVF works out for you, and that you have some lovely kids and that this whole issue becomes easier for you.

Ignore the haters, while they're riled at the tone of your original message (was a little full on), i'm sure that if they had looked a little deeper, more would have laughed along with your (pretty dark) humour in the face of some painful memories.
( lucosade is counting down the minutes until, Tue 17 May 2011, 17:38, closed)

yeah, funny that its ok to 'not beat around the bush' in any replies to a post
but that 'not beating around the bush' irl is so frowned upon.
Gotta laugh, if you don't . . . the universe implodes(!)
(maggotriddendirtbox fast, feral and sharp as a tack since, Thu 19 May 2011, 10:49, closed)

Asking people if they have children is not "blundering in".
It is a normal and well-intentioned conversation opener. Interpreting it as a personal slight and going on the attack is, in psychological jargon, completely fucking nuts.
( Dr. Shambolic je suis charlie, Mon 16 May 2011, 15:29, closed)

excuse my crap choice of words
somehow when I saw your comments and before realising your seriousness, I went on the defensive.
(maggotriddendirtbox fast, feral and sharp as a tack since, Tue 17 May 2011, 6:30, closed)

covered yourself well there, an edit packed with conditionals...
simple as this: when asking a member of the public a question, unless the question is rhetorical then don't assume you know the answer before you ask.
golly, a society trapped into asking "questions" just to appear polite.
Wankers.
( blaireau69 , the Cumbrian Travis Bickle., Mon 16 May 2011, 12:12, closed)

If you are having a conversation with someone you don't know, I fully expect that you never ask a single question and instead just talk constantly about yourself in a dull monotone.

But for people less stupid than you, asking questions about every day things is a way of getting a conversation going, and involving the other party, as it's a bit difficult to have a conversation on your own.
(Bazongaloid, Mon 16 May 2011, 12:59, closed)

even on my most autistic of days i engage with people in conversation and allsorts, isn't life amazing.
maybe it's just cos i actually care about people, or whatever, but when i ask a question in conversation or whenever, then it's because i want to hear the answer.
cos i'm interested.
why else?
( blaireau69 , the Cumbrian Travis Bickle., Mon 16 May 2011, 13:14, closed)

So if you were to ask somebody if they had any kids
you think it's perfectly reasonable for that person to deliberately try and make you uncomfortable by saying "No, I have no children, they are dead and we are having real problems conceiving"

Rather than just tempering it slightly to say "No" and then maybe steer the conversation away slightly.
(Bazongaloid, Mon 16 May 2011, 13:17, closed)

i wouldnt be surprised or shocked if that happened, the emotional strain involved is incredible.
it brings out all sorts of reactions, traumatised people do all sorts of crazy shit.
i wouldn't let it get in the way, though.
surely just because someone has been damaged by something horrible doesn't mean they're not entitled to be treat with a degree of normality?
( blaireau69 , the Cumbrian Travis Bickle., Mon 16 May 2011, 13:34, closed)

Bollocks.
If upwards of a third of couples, including me, can manage to cope with miscarriage without turning into obnoxious anti-social fucking mentals then why can't we expect this poster to manage it?
( Dr. Shambolic je suis charlie, Mon 16 May 2011, 15:05, closed)

I don't consider the op to be an obnoxious anti-social fucking mental.
Pots, kettles and blackness.
( blaireau69 , the Cumbrian Travis Bickle., Mon 16 May 2011, 15:19, closed)

they are certainly leaning in that direction.
it's a perfectly reasonable question to be asked although in my experience one that is never required because people with kids are so fucking keen to tell everyone about them.

in fact, that's going to be my response in future
"do you have kids?"
"if I did you'd know about it, because I'd have bored the shit out of you about them by now"
( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Mon 16 May 2011, 15:25, closed)

One of mine did a poo this morning.
Would you like me to describe it?
( Dr. Shambolic je suis charlie, Mon 16 May 2011, 15:30, closed)

naa, I'm good

( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Mon 16 May 2011, 15:34, closed)

HA! I'm going to describe it anyway because this is apparently the prerogative of parents.
[insert poo description with pictures and sound effects here]
( Dr. Shambolic je suis charlie, Mon 16 May 2011, 15:38, closed)

SONOFABITCH

( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Mon 16 May 2011, 15:45, closed)

That was one of the sound effects.

( Dr. Shambolic je suis charlie, Mon 16 May 2011, 15:50, closed)

I hope this is true

( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Mon 16 May 2011, 15:55, closed)

This. Oh lordy this.

( Wicca'd Witch needs ideas for a new sig on..., Mon 16 May 2011, 21:06, closed)

The first response in the OP is the usual response
I felt it concise, objective, and usually stops further talk of "don't leave it too lates" and "why nots".
Someone in that conversation is always going to feel uncomfortable, huh? And if its 10 seconds of awkwardness and a changed topic, so be it, better than me going home bawling my eyes out again because someone hasn't known when to leave it alone.
(maggotriddendirtbox fast, feral and sharp as a tack since, Tue 17 May 2011, 6:34, closed)

Covered myself?
No, merely more acknowledged that response wasn't 'the usual' as pointed out by the OP.

I don't assume anything, nor do I force my life's tragedies on anyone who cares to ask "how's it going Galahad?"
(Galahad is out of his gourd on yellow bentines, Mon 16 May 2011, 21:53, closed)

It was a perfectly serious response.
Which part of it do you have a problem with?
( Dr. Shambolic je suis charlie, Mon 16 May 2011, 15:03, closed)

IVF messes with your hormones.
Maybe that's the reason for the frankly unwarranted backlash.
( Wicca'd Witch needs ideas for a new sig on..., Mon 16 May 2011, 21:44, closed)

I can understand the original poster overreacting.
I'm just a little baffled who these other cunts are and why they're leaping up to defend the argument. They can't all have bollocksed hormones. Some of them's balls haven't even dropped yet.
( Dr. Shambolic je suis charlie, Mon 16 May 2011, 22:49, closed)

o hai
Shambo's little shadow
(maggotriddendirtbox fast, feral and sharp as a tack since, Tue 17 May 2011, 6:36, closed)

A measured response.

( WormuIus, Mon 16 May 2011, 13:56, closed)

Completely fucking wasted on the shrieking feebles on here.

( Dr. Shambolic je suis charlie, Mon 16 May 2011, 15:04, closed)

also, if it affects so many pregnancies
I would expect other women to have been through this (and indeed it has happened). Rather than a conversation stopper or a fight, its actually opened up a new direction of conversation. As you probably know, miscarriage and infertility is rarely talked about openly, there's a real sense of shame and 'hide it in the closet' but I've actually found everyday people who relate and 'get it' rather than seeing me as being obnoxious!
(maggotriddendirtbox fast, feral and sharp as a tack since, Tue 17 May 2011, 7:11, closed)