The Bible
I'll keep this short because I suspect I'm in a tiny minority that finds this utterly fascinating....

I'm of the wishy-washy liberal opinion when it comes to faith - I don't have much of one but having been drenched in it as a child and still surrounded by plenty of Roman Catholic God-botherers, a few pagans, protestants, jews and plenty of Atheists, I honestly don't mind what people believe.

BUT

and this is a big BUT....

I believe that ALL children (and adults if they don't already know) regardless of faith, should be taught the Bible - King James version.


Why?

Well, if you don't know then you ought to find out!

This 'book'* has affected human society across the entire world more than any other man-made event.

Wars have been fought over it and its stories. Genocide, literature, history, cultural mores, lives and societies have been based upon this book.

Cicero said that "He who does not know history is destined to remain a child." Know nothing of the Bible and you're missing out on a huge part of your cultural heritage.

The Bible is a fundamental part of Western culture and history and in turn has affected worldwide history.

That's the bigger picture, but without a good working knowledge of the King James version anyone intending to study the humanities will be lacking basic knowledge. I could wax lyrical for hours about the pieces of art that have biblical references, the books that rely upon it, don't get me started on how poetry uses direct quotes, themes and forms taken from the Bible...but to be fair none of it is really humorous and while I find it stimulating and fascinating as an intellectual pursuit many others don't.








*I say 'book' in the singular simply because we tend to regard it in that way but it is of course a collection of books.
( chickenlady b3ta's very own Elizabeth Taylor, Mon 23 Mar 2009, 11:18, 29 replies)

^
I think that's probably the most sensible thing I've read this year
(Gomi No Sensei, Mon 23 Mar 2009, 11:21, closed)

I like your slant on this...
...it's not solely for religious purposes as such, but to allow us to recognise the references to the bible in literature and poetry.

Interestingly, you're unapologetic about catholicism being part of your heritage, despite not having a great deal of faith yourself.

Am I on the right track or should I refill my coffee?
(Bicycle Repairman "you're also a bit of a wanker", Mon 23 Mar 2009, 11:22, closed)

*teacher hat on*
"your unapologetic"
my unapologetic what?

Or do you mean 'you're'?

;-)
Sorry, couldn't resist.

And yes, you're right, my faith, beliefs or lack of don't come into this matter at all but what has formed our society (and in turn me) is of huge importance.
( chickenlady b3ta's very own Elizabeth Taylor, Mon 23 Mar 2009, 11:27, closed)

Argh!
That is an uncharacteristic typo from me. D'oh!

How many Hail Marys is that?
(Bicycle Repairman "you're also a bit of a wanker", Mon 23 Mar 2009, 11:33, closed)

Two Hail Marys and a Glory Be
And an extra fiver in the collection plate on Sunday.

;)
( chickenlady b3ta's very own Elizabeth Taylor, Mon 23 Mar 2009, 11:38, closed)

If you read The God Delusion
Richard Dawkins makes exactly the same point
( emvee cruor deo cruoris, Mon 23 Mar 2009, 11:27, closed)

I've read it.
Cover to cover. And the Apocrypha.

I'd teach a slimmed-down version. The Pentateuch, Song of Songs, Bel and the Dragon, Song of the Three Holy Children, Maccabees, the Gospels and the Epistles, Job, a few other books.

But, really, noone needs Numbers.

So: slimmed down Bible, and Homer and Sophocles to boot.
( Enzyme is powered by sunlight, Mon 23 Mar 2009, 11:30, closed)

Add in Ovid and you've got my vote

( chickenlady b3ta's very own Elizabeth Taylor, Mon 23 Mar 2009, 11:37, closed)

Which Ovid?

( Cawl, Mon 23 Mar 2009, 11:38, closed)

Metamorphoses

( chickenlady b3ta's very own Elizabeth Taylor, Mon 23 Mar 2009, 11:38, closed)

I give that my
Seal of approval, Metamorphoses is awesome.
( Cawl, Mon 23 Mar 2009, 11:39, closed)

Pfft!
Bloody intellectuals.


Add Mary Wollenscroft's A vindication of the rights of women and I might concurr.
( girlinthehole, Mon 23 Mar 2009, 11:47, closed)

Haha!
I'm hardly an intellectual, I have enough trouble buttoning my damn jeans :p
( Cawl, Mon 23 Mar 2009, 11:51, closed)

It is a well known fact.
The more crap you are at real life the more intellectual you are. This also works for retards so retards and intellectuals have similar characteristics.

So says the emminant sociologist Doctor BG Blouse.
( girlinthehole, Mon 23 Mar 2009, 12:48, closed)

Is that why Enzyme
Can only wear clothes with velcro, and eats microwave meals?
( Cawl, Mon 23 Mar 2009, 12:54, closed)

I've read both.
So I'm with both of you.
(Angie the Redneck Wonder, Tue 24 Mar 2009, 13:18, closed)

Yup
OK.
( Enzyme is powered by sunlight, Mon 23 Mar 2009, 11:45, closed)

But....
most of it is inconsequential rubbish. There are huge swathes of it that are just half-remembered histories of tribal wars (that just go on and on and have no bearing on anything other than remote Jewish history).

I would suggest that very little of the important history of the 20th Century is directly related to the Bible, King James or otherwise. I agree with the Cicero quote, but a good knowledge of 20th Century events is FAR more relevant.
(Seebeedee, Mon 23 Mar 2009, 11:49, closed)

I'm not suggesting that the Bible is a factual historical document
although some might suggest that.

But without knowing the Bible then so much remains a closed book to you...

Shakespeare, Milton, Chaucer...

As far as history is concerned it's impossible to look at any period in total isolation - one needs to be aware of what has gone before and what motives were behind their actions.
( chickenlady b3ta's very own Elizabeth Taylor, Mon 23 Mar 2009, 11:58, closed)

Shakespeare is a closed book if you haven't read the Bible?
Pffft. If that were true, his plays would not have their truly global appeal.

As for history - when was the Bible ever truly used as the guidebook for people's actions?

Like any large, complex religious text, it just gets used to excuse the actions - it's so large and obtuse that it's never really hard to find a quote in there to justify whatever you're doing. People throughout history have decided what to day and then justified it by interpreting the Bible as they see fit - you're better off looking at what actually happened than looking at how they excused it at the time.
(Seebeedee, Mon 23 Mar 2009, 21:48, closed)

Ah, such pearls:
www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ezekiel%2023:20;&version=31;
:-)
(Seebeedee, Tue 24 Mar 2009, 13:10, closed)

Oh this is a shame...
You probably won't like these references that I've got...because they're honest to goodness academic ones.

www.shakespearefellowship.org/virtualclassroom/StritmatterShaheenRev.htm

muse.jhu.edu/login?uri=/journals/shakespeare_quarterly/v052/52.1curren-aquino.pdf

www.shaksper.net/archives/1998/0697.html

Now go away, read your Shakespeare and your bible and learn something about the history of western literature.
( chickenlady b3ta's very own Elizabeth Taylor, Wed 25 Mar 2009, 17:59, closed)

And understanding the 20th century comes from where?
It's not enough simply to know facts. You need to know whence they spring.
( Enzyme is powered by sunlight, Mon 23 Mar 2009, 11:59, closed)

I support this idea
However, it's on one condition. That an equal amount of time and expertise is spent on teaching the Koran and the holy texts of other major (as in, world affecting) religous texts.
The reason I say this is they have just as much an effect on the current world status - some knowledge of the koran would be essential the dealing with middle eastern countries, for example.

I'm not great at supporting my point, but I hope I managed to get it accross ok.
(Potty Jag har smör i min rumpspringa, Mon 23 Mar 2009, 13:54, closed)

You're missing my point
which wasn't about religion or faith but about culture and how the Bible (which coincidentally the Old Testament forms a fundamental part of each of the three main monotheistic faiths as they're each based upon Abrahamic tradition) in particular has affected the entire world.

Without knowledge of the Bible huge swathes of art and literature would be rendered incomprehensible.

The Torah and the Koran have not affected the very fabric of our culture in the same way.

That's my point.
( chickenlady b3ta's very own Elizabeth Taylor, Mon 23 Mar 2009, 20:18, closed)

Good morning Chickenlady, good morning PJM, good morning everybody,
As Lionel Blue might put it.

I quite like the King James version too, some beautiful language with very deep resonances.

I was watching Ben Hur yesterday (well, it was Mothers' Day) and I was wondering how Judah Ben Hur had got hold of a copy of the King James bible in A.D.33. He was quoting (or it might have been Esther, come to think of it) the Sermon on the Mount: 'Blessed [that's bless-ed, as in Brian] are the peacemakers for they shall be called the children of God' etc. etc. Maybe he had a time machine as well as a chariot.
(Che Grimsdale Best before:, Mon 23 Mar 2009, 13:59, closed)

Sure, teach the Bible
But teach it the same way you'd teach the Iliad -- not as truth, but as literature or as a historical text.
(Ellinikos contains a source of phenylalanine, Mon 23 Mar 2009, 14:21, closed)

Like any text it's open to interpretation
Having read Battlefield Earth I can safely say it's pulp sci-fi at it's most derivative, yet if L Ron Hubbard can devise a religion that is taken semi-seriously and worth several billion dollars a year then the bible is a far superior faith handbook.
(Bicycle Repairman "you're also a bit of a wanker", Mon 23 Mar 2009, 15:28, closed)

Exactly - teach it as literature and a historical text
Whether it is 'truth' or not depends entirely on your belief.
( chickenlady b3ta's very own Elizabeth Taylor, Mon 23 Mar 2009, 20:08, closed)