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(, Sun 1 Apr 2001, 1:00)
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Non-linear storytelling
Discuss.


Alt Q: Your first kiss.
(, Wed 12 Jan 2011, 17:55, 144 replies, latest was 15 years ago)
like i don't overdone i it think it's

(, Wed 12 Jan 2011, 17:58, Reply)
Semantic fail.

(, Wed 12 Jan 2011, 18:02, Reply)
Alt: my mother, Sept 30th 1973.
Man, what a trip.
(, Wed 12 Jan 2011, 18:01, Reply)
if used effectively can work quite well
also, when done in film means that you can watch it in the correct order as well, which is mildly interesting.

alt: aside from my first no-tongue kiss, all my important firsts have been with gingers. This upsets me slightly.
(, Wed 12 Jan 2011, 18:02, Reply)
Is it less stimulating when in the correct order though?

(, Wed 12 Jan 2011, 18:03, Reply)
hard to say
perhaps slightly.

Pulp Fiction btw
(, Wed 12 Jan 2011, 18:04, Reply)
One of the earliest
It certainly works effectively in film mainly because we're so used to 'reading' film. It's harder when we see it in text - I've never made it beyond the first few pages of 'If on a winter's night a traveller...' by Calvino, much to my shame.
(, Wed 12 Jan 2011, 18:11, Reply)
OMG! Chickenlady.
I think so much less of you now.
(, Wed 12 Jan 2011, 18:12, Reply)
*hangs head*
You have an impressive bookcase BGB.
(, Wed 12 Jan 2011, 18:13, Reply)
I'm buying another bookcase soon.
I want to make the spare room into a library : )
(, Wed 12 Jan 2011, 18:17, Reply)
If you are serious
Check out the cost of getting a local joiner in to build shelves in on every wall (and above the door). You may be pleasantly surprised.
(, Thu 13 Jan 2011, 10:06, Reply)
I've never started it
perhaps I will if it's a bit crazy
(, Wed 12 Jan 2011, 18:14, Reply)
If you're happy about the 4th wall being broken - it makes me uneasy when I see it in text - feels like the writer is stalking me.
www.sccs.swarthmore.edu/users/00/pwillen1/lit/winter.htm
(, Wed 12 Jan 2011, 18:20, Reply)
this sounds cool

(, Wed 12 Jan 2011, 18:22, Reply)
actually, just read the rest of that bit and I'm going to have to buy it now
for some reason I am now thinking of Kurt Vonnegut. Also good for non-linear storytelling, for example slaughterhouse 5 and Timequake
(, Wed 12 Jan 2011, 18:30, Reply)
I adored Slaughterhouse 5
A brilliant example of non-linear storytelling, real plot tension too.
(, Wed 12 Jan 2011, 18:31, Reply)
I have a link to an online version
of If On a Winter's Night a Traveller if you want it, floating around somewhere
(, Wed 12 Jan 2011, 18:33, Reply)
thanks, but I'm not very good at reading stuff properly on a computer screen
one day, though, I will get a Kindle...one day
(, Wed 12 Jan 2011, 18:35, Reply)
That book is amazing
if you get a chance give it another shot- the bits and pieces of other novels inside it are great
(, Wed 12 Jan 2011, 18:25, Reply)
I must.
I started reading it years ago - it was a set text on my MA and I just couldn't get into it. Maybe I'm due to have another go.
(, Wed 12 Jan 2011, 18:32, Reply)
It loses it a tiny bit towards the end
but the meta in it is quite fun to read and play around with
(, Wed 12 Jan 2011, 18:34, Reply)
alt: it was crap

(, Wed 12 Jan 2011, 18:02, Reply)
Oh THANKS.

(, Wed 12 Jan 2011, 18:04, Reply)
don't hate

(, Wed 12 Jan 2011, 18:10, Reply)
My brain is mush so can't think of any examples or an argument
but it can be very clever if done correctly. Trying to think of an example that I liked.

Alt: With someone I really liked. Soon turned incredibly distressing.
(, Wed 12 Jan 2011, 18:04, Reply)
With boy.........boring.
First kiss with woman, my legs nearly gave way.
(, Wed 12 Jan 2011, 18:07, Reply)
Were you carrying a washing machine at the time?

(, Wed 12 Jan 2011, 18:08, Reply)
*ignores Jeff*

(, Wed 12 Jan 2011, 18:09, Reply)
*Pinches Blousie on the arm and pulls her pig-tails*
RUNS!
(, Wed 12 Jan 2011, 18:09, Reply)
That means you fancy me in playground language.

(, Wed 12 Jan 2011, 18:10, Reply)
*Smugs*
You're not ignoring me now are you!
(, Wed 12 Jan 2011, 18:11, Reply)
he's got a point, it did work

(, Wed 12 Jan 2011, 18:12, Reply)
He may have won this battle but he won't win the war.

(, Wed 12 Jan 2011, 18:15, Reply)
*Sails off into the sunset!*

(, Wed 12 Jan 2011, 18:26, Reply)
*releases submarine torpedo*

(, Wed 12 Jan 2011, 18:31, Reply)
Don't forget to flush afterwards, though

(, Wed 12 Jan 2011, 18:31, Reply)
I always do : )

(, Wed 12 Jan 2011, 18:43, Reply)
hahahahaha

(, Wed 12 Jan 2011, 19:03, Reply)
is a good thing, Iain Banks does it a lot
alt q: some dude in a rough nightclub on the pier in Mumbles. My main thought was, "ooo, orangy"
(, Wed 12 Jan 2011, 18:09, Reply)
Was there a Tango promotion on at the time?

(, Wed 12 Jan 2011, 18:10, Reply)
no, but I always think
second hand beer tastes a bit orangey, surely not just me thinks that?
(, Wed 12 Jan 2011, 18:11, Reply)
I imagine it means trouble for Crow when kissing boys
if it's too orangey
(, Wed 12 Jan 2011, 18:12, Reply)
Maybe second-hand ale tastes different
I have no experience of it.
(, Wed 12 Jan 2011, 18:13, Reply)
It's just for me and my dog!
*Wrong, wrong, wrong*
(, Wed 12 Jan 2011, 18:23, Reply)
I love 'The Wasp Factory'
I've to 'A Song of Stone' sitting on the shelf...maybe once I've finished reading 'The Year of the Flood' I'll get to it.
(, Wed 12 Jan 2011, 18:12, Reply)
I forget which is which with his non-genre stuff
but I think Song of Stone was one of the good ones
(, Wed 12 Jan 2011, 18:13, Reply)
I ought to read more of his - he plots exquisitely
And doesn't write a single word of the narrative until he's completely worked out the entire plot.
(, Wed 12 Jan 2011, 18:15, Reply)
His latest non genre is Transitions
that one is really cool, although I may be biassed as it has more sci fi ideas in it
(, Wed 12 Jan 2011, 18:18, Reply)
MAY I ASK
is it possible to make breadcrumbs from frozen bread if you let it defrost?

MESSAGE ENDS
(, Wed 12 Jan 2011, 18:15, Reply)
I would imagine so.
Let the bread dry out.
(, Wed 12 Jan 2011, 18:20, Reply)
Why let it defrost?
Just use a cheesegrater. THEN let it defrost.
(, Wed 12 Jan 2011, 18:22, Reply)
I think I threw it out in my freezer clearance.
I'm making bean burgers. What has my life come to?
(, Wed 12 Jan 2011, 18:31, Reply)
Toast it first
then it'll make breadcrumbs
(, Wed 12 Jan 2011, 18:34, Reply)
i was 13
and drunk. he was 32 and he and his mates were on a rugby tour.

i ended up in a v scary situation that resulted in being forced to give him a blowjob whilst he kept pulling out of my mouth so i could say repeatedly "i'm 13, i'm only 13."

i did not go near another willy for about 4 years! the snogging part was fun though.
(, Wed 12 Jan 2011, 18:15, Reply)
eek!
I didn't have my first kiss until I was 18. In some ways, though, I'm now glad I was so socially inept, not sure I'd have dealt with a situation like that
(, Wed 12 Jan 2011, 18:17, Reply)
That is horrific :(

(, Wed 12 Jan 2011, 18:18, Reply)
it was pretty gross
i blame my friend, she was a lot sluttier than me, and was quite happy to go into her bloke's hotel room and start doing stuff. i was completely naive, sitting paralysed on the edge of the bed whilst we could hear them getting up to all sorts of noisy stuff, and he made it clear he was thinking "i pulled the wrong one" :(
(, Wed 12 Jan 2011, 18:23, Reply)
Good god :(
I was shaken enough by what happened with my first kiss, but it's small fry compared to what happened to you. That's really quite upset me.
(, Wed 12 Jan 2011, 18:33, Reply)
He didn't 'pull the wrong one'
He molested a drunk child, the cunt.
(, Wed 12 Jan 2011, 19:30, Reply)
Double eek!

(, Wed 12 Jan 2011, 18:19, Reply)
Drunk at 13?
Good work!

I am choosing to ignore the frankly rapey side of this post
(, Wed 12 Jan 2011, 18:22, Reply)
ah, thunderbird
classy days
(, Wed 12 Jan 2011, 18:23, Reply)
Thunderbird red?
Or did you favour the blue one?
(, Wed 12 Jan 2011, 18:25, Reply)
I have no excuse.
I used to drink that stuff in my early twenties.
(, Wed 12 Jan 2011, 18:28, Reply)
It's like a Friday night in any Bristolioan park
With these drinks of yester-year.

www.bumwine.com/

Thunderbird me up!
(, Wed 12 Jan 2011, 18:29, Reply)
I didn't taste it 'til my 20s either!
I was allowed to go out when I was only 16 (as long as I stuck to non-scally non-druggy places my folks approved of - so rock clubs and gay pubs). So I didn't have to do the cider-in-park thing.
(, Wed 12 Jan 2011, 19:37, Reply)
the nasty drink of choice in south wales
was Mad dog 2020
(, Wed 12 Jan 2011, 18:31, Reply)
White lightning for my mates, I didn't touch the stuff.

(, Wed 12 Jan 2011, 19:05, Reply)
That is horrifying
what a fucking creepy man he must've been
(, Wed 12 Jan 2011, 18:23, Reply)
when they pulled us they would have thought we were 18 or thereabouts
now frankly if you are 25 or above you should not be pulling 18 year olds. but then when he found out i was 13, he actually liked it more. vile!

i remember he wanted a titwank and i was SO flatchested, it was mortifying.
(, Wed 12 Jan 2011, 18:24, Reply)
You were a child
This wasn't a disastrous date
(, Wed 12 Jan 2011, 19:31, Reply)
That's fucking horrific
I hope he's either changed his ways or is locked up somewhere.
(, Wed 12 Jan 2011, 18:48, Reply)
I quite like it
especially combined with an unreliable narrator. Mixes things up a bit

Alt Q: my first kiss was boring and un-noteworthy
(, Wed 12 Jan 2011, 18:21, Reply)
It can be quite effective
But Tarantino is a prime example of how it can be overused. Yes he's made some good films, but I can't escape the feeling that he puts so many gimmicks in because he's desperately trying to be zany and cool, and it's not quite working out.
(, Wed 12 Jan 2011, 18:24, Reply)
Hmm never got that feeling
I just get the feeling it's because he loves them for their own sake
(, Wed 12 Jan 2011, 18:38, Reply)
To be fair, I'm probably predjudiced
I don't really like many of his films full stop. It's easy to claim that something like "Kill Bill" is stylised, but I just thought it was quite silly. As for "Inglorius Basterds" it was the only film in a long while that I just gave up on halfway through. The only good thing in it was Christoph Waltz.
(, Wed 12 Jan 2011, 18:45, Reply)
Alt: Her name was Laura, it was in a Quasar, I was 11
It was highly entertaining, as her best friend said to me "Laura wants to meet you", now considering I was already 'going out' with her at this point, I was thoroughly confused. "I've already met her, surely?"

This went on for a minute or so, until she translated that to 'meet' someone is to snog them. Laughed my fucking head off when I realised that. Kissed her a minute later, then 45 minutes later snogged her best mate. It was fun being young.
(, Wed 12 Jan 2011, 18:42, Reply)
my goodness!
how come everyone else's first kisses were at a so much younger age than mine? I know I was a munter (probably still am, but my dad doesn't make my school skirt any more), but still...
(, Wed 12 Jan 2011, 18:53, Reply)
If it helps, after those girls, I didn't kiss another until I was 14

(, Wed 12 Jan 2011, 18:55, Reply)
:(
I suspect you snogged more people before you were 18 than I have by the age of 34
(, Wed 12 Jan 2011, 18:57, Reply)
While this may (or may not) be true, it's mainly down to there being a youth club nearby, full of drunk girls.

(, Wed 12 Jan 2011, 19:01, Reply)
You didn't kiss another girl until LAST WEEK?
Brave of you to admit it in a public forum.
(, Wed 12 Jan 2011, 18:57, Reply)
Haha, sod off
I'm 22
(, Wed 12 Jan 2011, 19:03, Reply)
Did you shoot her once you'd kissed her?

(, Wed 12 Jan 2011, 18:57, Reply)
...Yes

(, Wed 12 Jan 2011, 19:03, Reply)
Alt: I was 14
She was in the year above me, and we kissed (I kid you not) in a graveyard. She wasn't a goff in any way, and that was before I become one (I got better), we just happened to be walking that way when she pounced.

It was terrible. Far too much saliva and her tongue just slowly rotated around my mouth like a mong stuck in a washing machine. We kissed again a week later, then she dumped me.
(, Wed 12 Jan 2011, 18:43, Reply)
Did you know there's a school called Goffs?
Gave me a genuine officeLOL.
(, Wed 12 Jan 2011, 19:02, Reply)
Here is a really good example of it.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qr-m7LN-kl4&feature=player_detailpage#t=177s
(, Wed 12 Jan 2011, 18:44, Reply)
I am a big admirer of authors that can confidently use non-linear narrative.
But I didn't like If on a Winter's Night a Traveller.

I found it unbearably smug and didn't think it actually justified either its place in the modern canon or even its own existence as an artistic fragment.
(, Wed 12 Jan 2011, 18:55, Reply)
Woo! get you.

(, Wed 12 Jan 2011, 18:58, Reply)
Seriously, for a novel that's taught on so many degree courses, it is very very smug.
Give me White Noise or The Crying of Lot 49 over ...Winter's Night any day.

I will grudgingly admit that it is useful in introducing baby faced literature students to the basics of postmodernism in the novel, but it is, as I have said, unbearably smug.
(, Wed 12 Jan 2011, 19:01, Reply)
The Crying of Lot 49 is alright
but Thomas Pynchon is so overrated it is actually unbelievable
(, Wed 12 Jan 2011, 19:04, Reply)
I'll have to disagree
and point out the obvious- no book has to justify itself
(, Wed 12 Jan 2011, 19:01, Reply)
What I mean was that I don't think it's worthy of all the high praise it gets.
It is pretty much an extended example of Calvino showing off his 'new style', there are far better books that do the same thing, and it's not even as if it was the first.

If Calvino hadn't written it, nobody else would have, whereas you look at novels like American Psycho or White Noise and they are works that had to be written.
(, Wed 12 Jan 2011, 19:05, Reply)
If Calvino hadn't written it
I think the world would be missing something. Whereas American Pyscho hardly fulfills that
(, Wed 12 Jan 2011, 19:08, Reply)
American Psycho is a demanding, serious, important novel.
Ellis at his best is up there with De Lillo and Updike, he really is.
(, Wed 12 Jan 2011, 19:09, Reply)
This could explain
why we disagree on literature since along with Pynchon, I happen to think Updike is overrated as well. Obviously he's good, but not nearly as good as he thinks he is. And for more controversy The Adventures of Augie March was shit
(, Wed 12 Jan 2011, 19:11, Reply)
I would even put Ellis on par with Ballard.

(, Wed 12 Jan 2011, 19:16, Reply)
I think we must accept
that our taste in literature is too different to agree
(, Wed 12 Jan 2011, 19:17, Reply)
Only read one Ballard
it was a bit nob
(, Wed 12 Jan 2011, 19:19, Reply)
Which one?

(, Wed 12 Jan 2011, 19:34, Reply)
Drowned World I think
it was a while ago, and I've been tempted to read others as it feels like a gap in my sci fi knowledge
(, Wed 12 Jan 2011, 19:37, Reply)
His sci fi work is bearable, but his artistic peak was his experimental phase.
The Atrocity Exhibition is a wonderful book.
(, Wed 12 Jan 2011, 19:44, Reply)
I think I read Updike once.
God that was a slog.
(, Wed 12 Jan 2011, 19:17, Reply)
'I like this'

(, Wed 12 Jan 2011, 19:18, Reply)
Alt: My sister's first kiss was supposedly romantic, and while I don't know the specifics, I think it's quite sweet that she's now married to him, having never kissed anyone else.

(, Wed 12 Jan 2011, 18:57, Reply)
at the start of that sentence I expected it to be a
'bert fucks his sister' joke
(, Wed 12 Jan 2011, 18:58, Reply)
Nope, although someone did call me Bert recently, grr

(, Wed 12 Jan 2011, 19:02, Reply)
fuck off bert

(, Wed 12 Jan 2011, 19:04, Reply)
Haha, that was predictable.

(, Wed 12 Jan 2011, 19:05, Reply)
it seemed a shame to miss the opportunity

(, Wed 12 Jan 2011, 19:06, Reply)
a bit like this, yeah?
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ynsr1bQtYts
(, Wed 12 Jan 2011, 19:09, Reply)
I wonder how kissing evolved/happened.

(, Wed 12 Jan 2011, 19:33, Reply)
Weren't you there when it started?
I wondered the same about Oral recently, then decided not to look a gift horse in the mouth.
(, Wed 12 Jan 2011, 19:40, Reply)
I can understand oral more than kissing.
Weirdo ancient folk probably thought it was good to worship and honour the parts that represented fertility. But what's the kissy thing about?
I'm not knocking it, because it's boss.
(, Wed 12 Jan 2011, 19:42, Reply)
This is true

(, Wed 12 Jan 2011, 19:43, Reply)
especially not when it's giving you a blow job

(, Wed 12 Jan 2011, 19:48, Reply)
It is quite offputting
Ask DJTP
(, Wed 12 Jan 2011, 19:50, Reply)
Cheeky saucy cunt!

(, Wed 12 Jan 2011, 19:50, Reply)
Sorry, I've not been cruel in a while, just thought it amusing!

(, Wed 12 Jan 2011, 19:53, Reply)
Neeeigh

(, Wed 12 Jan 2011, 19:54, Reply)
Alright Jeremy?

(, Wed 12 Jan 2011, 19:55, Reply)
Two stone-age lesbians invented it.

(, Wed 12 Jan 2011, 19:41, Reply)
This was before the iron had been invented and women had more free time, yes?

(, Wed 12 Jan 2011, 19:42, Reply)
Your history knowledge is crap.
The stone-age was well before the Iron-age.
(, Wed 12 Jan 2011, 19:44, Reply)
:(

(, Wed 12 Jan 2011, 19:46, Reply)
Hahah, makes sense!

(, Wed 12 Jan 2011, 19:42, Reply)
I think they still hang round a pub in Congleton.
Well, they fucking look like cavewomen anyway!
(, Wed 12 Jan 2011, 19:42, Reply)
Sensible answer.
www.syncrat.com/8hq
(, Wed 12 Jan 2011, 19:44, Reply)
I like kissing.

(, Wed 12 Jan 2011, 19:47, Reply)
As do I!
Think anyone doesn't?
(, Wed 12 Jan 2011, 19:47, Reply)

People with philemaphobia.
(, Wed 12 Jan 2011, 19:52, Reply)
Weird, weird people.

(, Wed 12 Jan 2011, 19:54, Reply)
Everyone likes kissing.
Kissing is good.
(, Wed 12 Jan 2011, 19:48, Reply)
me, too
:(
(, Wed 12 Jan 2011, 19:50, Reply)
Wanna kiss?
Mwahhhh!
(, Wed 12 Jan 2011, 19:52, Reply)
*slobbers*
gah, out of practise
(, Wed 12 Jan 2011, 19:53, Reply)
You should put your teeth back in, that usually helps

(, Wed 12 Jan 2011, 19:55, Reply)
shut it, youngy

(, Wed 12 Jan 2011, 20:01, Reply)
Haha

(, Wed 12 Jan 2011, 20:04, Reply)
Try your luck at the bash, it's worked for others!
That's how CHCB got her child man.
(, Wed 12 Jan 2011, 19:54, Reply)
Aw, it joins two souls,

(, Wed 12 Jan 2011, 19:48, Reply)
I haven't read it in full.

(, Wed 12 Jan 2011, 19:49, Reply)
I thought that was anal.

(, Wed 12 Jan 2011, 19:59, Reply)

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